Firearms and Backpacking

8:41 p.m. on January 12, 2016 (EST)
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I would like to pose a question not to stir a debate, however, to provide information. For those of you who choose to carry a firearm when backpacking, how do you carry it, obviously I would think you want it to be easily accessible so putting it in your pack will likely not work.

Carrying on your hip causes another obstacle as your packs waist belts would be in the way.

Do you use a chest rig or a drop holster on your side?

Appreciate any insight!

9:06 p.m. on January 12, 2016 (EST)
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I chest rig sometimes but mostly drop leg holsters are what I use. The only time I carry on my chest is when I need to carry extra gear on a drop leg and I have a primary arm..M4,shotgun,ect. Your gonna be faster on the draw from a drop leg. Make sure you have a sturdy belt like a riggers belt (wilderness systems makes a nice one) and extreme outfitters has a nice one on sale right now. Garrett Industries makes a nice drop leg and so do many others but them and safariland are what I try and stick too but Blackhawk is another good one. there are also waist packs that secure and hide a.firearm. I carry and sometimes I carry more than people see. 

9:51 p.m. on January 12, 2016 (EST)
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Thank you for the response tracker!

My primary belt is actually a Wilderness, have had it for years and it is still going strong! Ive tried the drop leg and they never seem to fit right, the drop portion is either too long and does not support the firearm, or something is just not functioning correctly.

I have a Condor Outdoors Tornado Tactical Leg Holster and it just does not fit securely...for me atleast...maybe I need to look into some of the other rigs you mentioned.

Thanks again for the info!

10:24 p.m. on January 12, 2016 (EST)
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the ones I mentioned all have a kydex holster and some have a nylon version and secure platforms, some come with extra retention it just depends on what you want and how much you want to spend of course....lol. A gun specific rig with a good platform will make a world of difference. FYI ..you can mail order several states ccw license and carry in most every state. I believe it's Utah,Virginia,Florida but check on that and in Vermont you don't need one and also check about open carry(you can come here and open carry as a non resident).

9:54 p.m. on January 13, 2016 (EST)
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you can get tactical back backs where the belt is removable from the pack. This maybe another option for you and I'm gonna.spell it wrong but Emblerstock makes packs for firearm carry. 

1:36 p.m. on January 19, 2016 (EST)
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I was out shooting a Ruger LCR this week.  It weighs a pound and answers the question "what kind of gun should be used for backpacking." It is a .357 mag in a small package.

I carry it in a leather holster on a nylon belt above my pack waistbelt. It is very light and comfortable.

4:31 p.m. on January 19, 2016 (EST)
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it depends but if I'm in the woods I go 10mm all the time ! my 2 choice is a 45acp. and I carry glock, if I have a rifle it's a Daniel defense or lwrc ect,and shotgun I go Remington 870 22 inch barrel with extended mag, or a AK pistol with a sig brace. The ballistics on a 10mm are great and they shoot straight and flat..if you go to a 6 inch barrel and slide or a 5 and a half inch barrel and slide you'll see even better performance because you use the bullet and velocity to the max. Using standard 10mm ammo your looking at the power of a  41mag. Do the barrel and slide swap and use some hot ammo like buffalo bore and you got a lot of firepower. If you have a glock 21 45acp you just need a 10mm barrel and mag and your good to go it's the same frame, if you have a glock 22 40 cal you can drop in a 357sig barrel and use the 40 mags it works and for 9mm you need mags,and a barrel...they all run the same frame.and parts. I love guns.....hehe..hope I helped. 

12:56 a.m. on January 20, 2016 (EST)
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Also my packs are molle compatible so I got other options but thigh is where I go. I'm guessing  you checked all your state and local laws and if in a federal park made sure they are fine with it. Im also assuming you have training with a firearm cuz once you pull that trigger you own that bullet and anything it hits. Remember  when you put on a gun or carry one.your an ambassador for the gun community so be polite,answer questions if people ask, if someone is rude be the bigger man or woman and walk away. I love guns but I want people to be safe and responsible with them. I've taken people who hate guns and in a day they were buying.one. It's all about exposure and common sense. 

2:16 p.m. on January 23, 2016 (EST)
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I envy you guys. I don't always carry a firearm but when I do it is my 12ga defender. Sadly we can't carry hand guns up here otherwise I'd pack a 44. It is rare when backpacking that I take it. But fishing and many day hikes I do, we live in the heart of bear country, huge grizzles and blacks. I have never needed it, but I take it esp in the spring. I would hate my last thought to be, crap, I should have brought the gun. And when I do carry it, it is always at the ready. 

12:03 a.m. on January 24, 2016 (EST)
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Mike I was gonna go 44mag until a buddy and 2 of his buddies had me do custom 10mm glocks for them and after talking to them and doing alot of research I felt more than confident in the builds. They like them not only for the power but mag capacity and quick reloads if needed. They have been more than pleased with what I gave them no jams or any issues. I still want a 44mag and a 500 mag just to have I'm a gun nut . I'll be doing 3 more glock builds a 10mm for myself on a 45acp frame and a 50GI, and haven't picked the 3rd yet. I also carry a shotgun or a M4 and sometimes my mini AK with brace. I keep them in my pack unless I'm working.

12:31 a.m. on January 24, 2016 (EST)
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Sweet. I like the idea of a 45 and a high capacity mag, but in Canada our mag size is restricted too. I can't get started on this rant though, especially being new to this forum and hoping to make a few friends. LOL So I am going to digress and work on my review of my mtn hardware pack. 

2:33 a.m. on January 24, 2016 (EST)
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MIke just so you know if you have a glock 21 the 45acp you only need a 10mm barrel and 10mm mags. If you have a glock 22 the 40cal you just need a 357sig barrel and you can use the 40 mags and if you want 9mm you just need a barrel and mag swap. Now on the 10mm I used extended slides and barrel and some other things but I wanted to use as much of 10mm power and accuracy as possible. Too short of a barrel you lose energy and accuracy and too long you lose energy so 5 and a half inch barrel and slide or 6 inch is the sweet spot, but even stock Lary Vickers was hitting targets out to 200 yards on a stock 10mm glock and wasn't using +p loads either! Ammo wise I love Buffalo bore but I use Corbon or Barnes all high velocity +P and I use Hornady critical defense in my 45. . My general rule is take the heaviest bullet that I can push the fastest for optimal performance. It is a challenge  to find the right holster especially with the cost of some of them. Oh! bladetech is another great holster company I use the partial eclipse(I would not recommend this holster for the untrained as it has no safety features so anyone can just pull the gun out ect) when you do get a holster practice your draw every day with a unloaded gun and do it so much it creates muscle memory and then practice more....lol.

10:24 a.m. on January 24, 2016 (EST)
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Thanks for the info. Something to consider for sure. 

10:32 a.m. on January 24, 2016 (EST)
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For trips in the northern Rockies, I carry a S&W 629, which is the stainless version of the Model 19 in .44 mag. It is very manageable to shoot with some practice.

For trips horse back or in Alaska, I carry a Marlin lever in .45-70. I will never forget the first big brownie experience, in about 1980, up close and personal on a sandbar while working on the Keta River in Misty Fjords. I looked down at the Ruger SBH on my hip and just about wet my pants. We saw bears everyday and most of them were at close range in the thick woods of SE Alaska.  After that I always carried a rifle.  

If you are smart in the bush, you should never have to use a firearm, but it is very comforting none the less.

10:32 a.m. on January 24, 2016 (EST)
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For trips in the northern Rockies, I carry a S&W 629, which is the stainless version of the Model 19 in .44 mag. It is very manageable to shoot with some practice.

For trips horse back or in Alaska, I carry a Marlin lever in .45-70. I will never forget the first big brownie experience, in about 1980, up close and personal on a sandbar while working on the Keta River in Misty Fjords. I looked down at the Ruger SBH on my hip and just about wet my pants. We saw bears everyday and most of them were at close range in the thick woods of SE Alaska.  After that I always carried a rifle.  

If you are smart in the bush, you should never have to use a firearm, but it is very comforting none the less.

6:18 a.m. on January 25, 2016 (EST)
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ppine said:

For trips in the northern Rockies, I carry a S&W 629, which is the stainless version of the Model 19 in .44 mag. It is very manageable to shoot with some practice.

 

ppine, the S&W Model 629 is not a .44 Mag stainless version of the Model 19.  The Model 19 is a K frame while the 629 is an N frame. 

The S&W Model 66 is the stainless version of the Model 19.  Both K frames chambered in .357 Mag.

The Model 629 is the stainless version of the blued Model 29.  Both N frames chambered in .44 Mag.

10:27 a.m. on January 25, 2016 (EST)
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Yeah, Model 29. Thanks for the correction. I like the N frame a lot. Put it next to a Ruger SBH, and note the difference. The Ruger looks like a club. The only pistol I would rather carry is a Colt Python.

11:53 p.m. on January 25, 2016 (EST)
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Also keep in mind tactical Tupperware aka the glock is gonna be lighter than most not all but most revolvers and have gone through extensive testing to be part of military and police forces sidearm all over the world. The only thing that differs sometimes are marine cups that go into the firing pin channel these are not really needed but if you want them I think they run no more than $10. You can buy a glock tool and the glock armors book and never have to take it to a gunsmith. In reality the 3 parts the glock breaks down to is all most will ever need to do. Dont get me wrong I love other guns and I may even have a few pythons,H&K, ect. but for combat to edc  the glock wins it's modular always goes bang and cheap. It's also ugly ! Blackhawk also has a drop down duty piece that's solid plastic I got that piece somewhere it dropped my glock low enough it didn't interfere with my body armor or my pack it will work with all the serpa holsters even the cqb and accepts the offsets so you can add I believe 2 of these and it sets the holster out almost 1 inch. I had your problem and went through holsters like water but I found what worked for me and you will too the safariland really works good and so do the others I recommend but they cost a good amount to order and try out. 

5:34 a.m. on January 26, 2016 (EST)
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Two things to keep in mind re firearms in trails:  revolvers are available chambered in better/more adequate cartridges, and when your handgun must be utterly reliable, it should be a revolver.

 

11:01 a.m. on January 26, 2016 (EST)
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I agree with Bill.

Many people are enamored with auto pistols, but I don't think they are the best choice in the bush, especially in cold weather.

1:06 a.m. on January 27, 2016 (EST)
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Bill is correct your gun needs to be reliable and revolvers are pretty much as reliable as you can get. You can find semiautomatics in some calibers that are odd like the 50GI, 460 Rowland , 357mag ect. I will not take any firearm anywhere until I've broken it in and that is 100s of rounds and then I consider it field ready. But you get a jam how fast can you clear that jam and do you know the different ways to clear a jam? Glocks and other semiautos are not the best choice for everyone. I use them everyday but I trust my knowledge of my guns. Revolvers are more accurate too. I just prefer semiautomatics they're what I've trained with the most and my revolvers are all basically brand new collector pieces. Fun fact when police had 6 shot revolvers they were more accurate and made their shots count as departments went to semiautomatic high capacity mags they became less accurate and fired more rounds. The revolver will always have a place in my hart but I love my glock and caked in mud or filled with sand or frozen ect I know it's gonna work. 

4:59 a.m. on January 27, 2016 (EST)
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I have an autoloader I've put tens of thousands of cartridges through.  In one three year period, ~10,000 cartridges each year.  An M1911A1.  Still, I carry a revolver and do so for good reasons. 

As an aside, caked in mud, filled with sand, and frozen, your Glock may well experience a KABOOM it's known for when they experience a spiked, steep, and skewed-to-the-left pressure curve.

People carry, or don't, what they are comfortable with and what they think works best for them after considering the pros and cons and what works and doesn't work for them.

1:46 a.m. on January 28, 2016 (EST)
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I will say that my uburti cattlemen in 357mag was one of the best guns I took in the woods with me. It was cheap and honestly tons of fun! I wore it on a western style rig made by triple k. It's one of the few guns I regret getting rid of. It was single action but never let me down. I know it seems like I prefer glocks and semiautos but I really like all firearms equally. I just really want people to be safe and get what's right for them my choices should not influence anyone's purchase. I work with guns they are tools for me. I will agree with Bill that a revolver is always gonna be more reliable than a semiautomatic. Bill has alot of good points and I think a revolver is a good choice for most and you can put snake shot in them which is mighty handy. Also a revolver is much safer than my glock where the safety is on the trigger and I have my trigger pull at 2lbs and if I have a miss fire there are more steps involved than with a revolver. 

5:28 a.m. on January 28, 2016 (EST)
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As an instructor for the last 20+ years, I have to make a point of clarity.   I believe you meant stoppage vs misfire.  A misfire (or failure to fire --- whether an ammunition malfunction or a firearm malfunction) is but one of eight possible stoppages, all of which autoloaders are more prone to experiencing than revolvers are.

2:02 a.m. on February 1, 2016 (EST)
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No Bill I ment misfire a stoppage is even worse in a auto. Your starting to convince me to hit the safe and pull out one of my revolvers for the trail! I think you and I can both agree that when anything goes wrong with an auto it always involves more steps than a revolver. Mags sometimes don't feed right,stove pipes,ect. The more moving parts you got the more that can go wrong. Do you tap rack and hope that gets you going again or do you just rip that mag out and try another? As you pointed out there are numerous reasons you may have a stoppage. I will admit you are correct in all your statements and I'm an fan of autos but you make very good points that no one should dismiss. Just because I chose a glock does not make it the best and when you start doing mods to them you may compromise the reliability even more. Bill has much more experience than I do yes we both chose different firearms but ultimately it's up to you to decide. I respect Bill and his advice and information he has given. Thank you Bill and everyone else for keeping this topic respectful and civil. This post can be very informative and I think questions and answers ect can be addressed here as long as we all keep it civil and respectful. Again we all should thank Bill for sharing  his 20+ years of experience. I find information like that invaluable. Sorry I had to get that out this has been the best and nicest conversation on this subject I've ever had with well educated people.

2:43 a.m. on February 1, 2016 (EST)
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Yup.  Revolvers are more reliable in that they experience fewer stoppages which are defined as unintended interruptions in the cycle of function.  The eight steps in the cycle of function are feeding, chambering, locking, firing, unlocking, extracting, ejecting, and cocking.  The eight possible stoppages are failure to feed, failure to chamber, failure to lock, failure to fire, etc.  In your post above you mention three stoppages --- failure to fire (misfire), failure to feed (don't feed right), failure to eject (stovepipe).   Though simpler is almost always better, it is the number of stoppages/potential stoppages vs the number of parts that defines a firearm's reliability.  In other words, how a firearm action operates.  Consider that with a revolver feeding, chambering, extracting, and ejecting just aren't problems.  If a revolver's timing isn't off, locking and unlocking aren't problems either. That just leaves firing, and if a revolver fails to fire, the immediate action drill is to simply pull the trigger again on a double action revolver or cock the hammer again on a single action revolver.  Properly maintained revolvers just experience many fewer stoppages and if/when they ever do, the immediate action drills are much simpler.

8:22 p.m. on February 15, 2016 (EST)
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Went by the gun shop with a nice indoor range and was gonna go check out a suppressor for my 45 and I noticed a lady taking instructions from one of the stores instructors. well the gun kept having issues I asked the manager if I could step in he knows me and said yes. I go over introduced myself and low and behold it's a glock 19 I asked when she bought it she replied today. I immediately take the gun apart find the first issue the shelf lube is still on the gun which is silver in color and thick and holds all kinds of gunk so I show her how to clean and lube it. Next problem is she was shooting with a limp wrist which we corrected (the compacts and subcompacts don't like limp wrists) and I had her up and running and having a ball. I excused myself and went to shooting this suppressor which I was highly impressed with. On my way out the manager stopped me and we chatted for a bit and he asked if I wanted a job to which I had to decline due to my migraines and pills I take I said I'd be a liability but I appreciate the offer but he should get gssf matches up there and I'll shoot for them. He said he would try and if they do they will sponsor me. So today was a good day for me. The instructor was less than happy with me though..hehe. 

9:47 p.m. on February 15, 2016 (EST)
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The heck with the instructor.

Good going Tracker

12:11 a.m. on February 16, 2016 (EST)
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Old Guide  this place is very nice and state of the art but I've gone in and asked pretty simple questions about products they carry and one guy answered....I don't know I know rifles better? how can you not know your products? How can you teach someone to shoot when you should teach them about the gun they own? I made her take it apart and reassemble it atleast 5 times ect. The place is close and has okay deals they do trusts for $100 and usually have a good amount of suppressors I'm still looking for the one for my 45 and with no doubt a silencerco sparrow for a 22. I hear there is a great multi caliber one I need to see but the one I shot today I can get for $400 from a buddy at a outta state shop and then the $200 tax stamp. I'm gonna do a bit more looking  and then I'm gonna buy both and do my paperwork at the sametime for them. I'd like to do a sbr and sbs too at the sametime but that's just too much cash at once. I may go and get my nra instructors license just to have it . Usually women make better students because they listen and aren't afraid to ask questions. I'm no Bill with his years of being an instructor but I'm okay at it with firearms. 

9:56 a.m. on February 16, 2016 (EST)
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Colt Anaconda in .44 mag

8:46 p.m. on February 16, 2016 (EST)
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ppine...in the safe I have several pythons and anacondas and King Cobras. I haven't been in there in awhile it's at my dads for the pretty and rare guns. I've had so many offers for them it's amazing,I never would have guessed they would get to the prices they are. I'm probably gonna get another uburti cattlemen or a ruger for my personal revolver Thanks to Bill! but the Colts live in dad's safe along with my Walther from west Germany and other nice guns I'd just mess up and until I own a house and can get a safe like his I don't want them if someone broke in when I wasn't home and stole them I'd go nuts.

4:51 p.m. on February 17, 2016 (EST)
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Tracker I just think you did right by what you done.

Most women are better firearm learners, especially with handguns, its a known fact. Just recently a friend's wife wanted a handgun and took her husband and son through a course in Illinois which of course included firing time and she, who had never owned any firearm, easily out shot the boys. They all did get their carry permits though.

6:35 p.m. on February 17, 2016 (EST)
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So how many of you carry when you backpack? I have nothing against it mind you.Just interested...

7:39 p.m. on February 17, 2016 (EST)
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I like the Ruger LCR and will be packing it in two weeks on the edge of Death Valley.

8:08 p.m. on February 17, 2016 (EST)
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I do. I'm pretty sure thats been established....lol.

10:18 p.m. on February 17, 2016 (EST)
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I just applied for my concealed carry weapons permit in Georgia, where I live. Fortunately, the 2 states I hike and camp in most often (TN & NC) have a reciprocal recognition of the Georgia Weapons Permit. 

Just like in my home, in the backcountry, using my gun to protect myself and my family would be the absolute last resort, if all other methods failed to diffuse the situation and my life was in imminent danger. 

I don't hunt, never have, (nothing against those who do so, legally) but I really do appreciate a nice gun, be it a revolver, shotgun, rifle, etc. I grew up around them, and my father instilled in me a deep appreciation of, and respect for firearms including safe and proper use. 

While I frequent an indoor range near my house (one of many in Atlanta), I really enjoy "vaporizing" apples, oranges and cantaloupes from 200 yards away on my rural property, when my schedule allows.

2:29 a.m. on February 18, 2016 (EST)
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Old Guide...Thank You.  I prefer to show women how to shoot because they will ask you everything and listen. They also don't have egos like men do and try and show off or argue with you when they are dead wrong. We found her stance made sure that she was using her domanant eye. I explained ammo and she actually wrote it down! We ran a few drills from which she would draw and fire (first few times the gun was cleared) I showed her a trick I use if I have a jacket on how to get that jacket out of the way quick just put some weight keys ect in the pocket. Why open carry is good and concealed carry is good and when and where to use each. I will teach to a certain level knife use to women and why even though you carry a gun carry a knife too. I showed her the spyderco matriarch cuz I had mine on me and showed her how valuable it can be she was amazed and I think ordered 1. I like to teach what I know and if I'm unsure of something I find the answer and admit I can't know everything. 

2:36 a.m. on February 18, 2016 (EST)
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I think the better question for me is how many guns do I take on a trip? It can vary between 1-3 depending on where and what I'm doing. 1 is always a NAA Mini revolver which I need to go buy a new one. Then there is rifle or shotgun and then of course full size glock. Very rarely do I take a rifle or shotgun but they sometimes make a trip.

11:35 a.m. on March 6, 2016 (EST)
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I have a .44 Mag. Smith & Wesson 629 mountain backpacker (2" Barrel)

carry it in a Galco shoulder rig. 6 in chamber + 12 in (2) speedloaders on other side of harness.

I am glad to report that so far, this has been completely un-needed weight for over 30 years in the woods.

I hope it remains useless for all my remaining years.

That being said, I sure do feel better with it.
002gt.jpg

For the woods, I have removed the wood for rubber.

1:15 p.m. on March 6, 2016 (EST)
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I have a 629, but it is too heavy for anywhere except Alaska or Montana maybe.

I just came back from a rigorous trail  near Death Valley. I was carrying the LCR, in heavy brush and steep terrain. The belt got a little loose and there was some small chance of a branch touching the trigger. I unloaded the gun and put it in my pack. It was more dangerous to carry it under those conditions than it was to stash it.

2:08 p.m. on March 6, 2016 (EST)
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I'm currently looking and comparing suppressors. I figure I may as well save up and buy 2 or 3 at once and submit all my paperwork at the sametime. I do need some more guns though, I can never have too many.

5:10 p.m. on March 7, 2016 (EST)
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I support the right to keep and bare arms. Only and only if you are a responsible gun owner. I've never carried a gun backpacking. However I camped with a group of people in mills river campground. No offence to anyone,  but some drunk redneck shot himself with a 357 in the leg.  Thank god it was a roadside camping trip. So we were able to get the moron help fast. He didn't like the fact the rangers took him gun and charged him with reckless endangerment or something like that. Its been about 17 yrs ago. So i'm not sure if that was the charge. But people in the backcountry seem to have a lot better brains. But after 20 plus years of backpacking.  I've never needed one thank god. Please be carefull all. And for god sakes don't shoot your eye out. Hope no one is named Ralphie. Or at least don't use a red rider... lol I kill myself

8:35 p.m. on March 7, 2016 (EST)
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oogway there are always gonna be morons with guns unfortunately. I myself am a huge stickler for firearm safety. Now I always keep my gun load but I sure don't play with it ! 

10:06 a.m. on March 8, 2016 (EST)
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It is always better to bear arms than to bare arms. Brandishing can be a crime.

Yesterday I looked at 3 different .44 mag revolvers side by side. 

A S&W ultralite with a carbon fiber frame only weighed a pound.  It was lightly made for only factory ammo but would be a dream to carry.

A Ruger Redhawk double action with a 21/2 inch barrel and Pachmahyr grips. Heavy but strong.

A Ruger Blackhawk single action with a 4 inch barrel. Heavy but really strong.

It made the LCR very appealing for everything but humped bears.

10:18 a.m. on March 8, 2016 (EST)
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ppine always check Talo Distributors and Lipseys. They carry special editions that you may not find on the website or on gun genie ect.

5:18 p.m. on March 8, 2016 (EST)
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I totally agree with you tracker. It's a shame that one dumb ##@. Can ruin a good thing like that redneck. And I will allways suport the right to keep and bare arms. My wife feels different.  I keep telling her. "Hitler thought the same way as you. And look at what happen." That ticks her off every time. But the truth is the truth.

5:31 p.m. on March 8, 2016 (EST)
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oogway said:

I support the right to keep and bare arms.

 I support the right to arm bears.

8:23 a.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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Lol...and Bill just made bears even more dangerous!..ha!

The fact is I can sit a loaded gun on a table and if no1 touches it nothing will happen. It's only when you add a human that it becomes dangerous. 

It's your responsibility to know your gun and equipment! For instance my old uburti cattlemen held 6 rounds but no safety now if the Hammer is down the gun is safe right? Wrong even with the hammer down if dropped or that hammer gets hit too hard it will go off so you needed to carry it on a empty chamber. This was also common practice back in the old west. Now people buy a gun and just assume they are experts and know how to use it. I've used alot of guns but if I run across one I'm not familiar with I ask every question I can and take it apart and fiddle with it and get to know it before a round hits that chamber. 

I'm already in a hurry to grab a few suppressors,and rifles and lots of mags before are next president. The.last thing I need is dumb people shooting themselves making it worse.

10:30 a.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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Single action revolvers should only be loaded with 5 rounds. Put the hammer on half-cock. I know a professional trapper that is out be himself all the time. He carries only 4 rounds in his revolver. That way if the hammer gets hit it won't go off. If a branch advances the cylinder it still won't go off.  Some pistols like the newer Rugers have a transfer bar, but it is still a good habit to only load 5.  It is always a joke in old westerns to see people fire 6 rounds out of their "6 shooter." No one in their right mind carried more than 5.

A holster for the bush should have a snap or strap to keep the gun in place even if you come off a horse.  It should also cover the trigger area to protect against a branch advancing the cylinder. A friend of mine that is a pro horse packer was carrying a single action revolver with 5 rounds.  After a long day in the saddle his lead pack mule starting rubbing against him because he was ready to stop.  The mule managed to advance the exposed trigger in the guys holster.  A round went off going thru my friend's leg and lodging in his foot.  He was in rough shape and was saved by another  passing packer.

10:47 a.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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I had a triple K belt and holster. I really liked the set up. the belt carried extra ammo hung perfect. Man I'm missing that gun. It was in 357mag and I was gonna get a lever action to go with it or a mares leg. I'm really having sellers remorse now....lol.

1:39 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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ppine said:

Single action revolvers should only be loaded with 5 rounds.

This was once true in all cases re single action revolvers, but that is no longer the case.  The reason being the pin on the hammer could strike the primer of the case under the hammer if the revolver was dropped or severely jolted.

These days some Single action revolvers (i.e. "new" Rugers or even older Rugers which were returned to Ruger for work) have transfer bar safeties preventing the primer being struck without pulling the trigger to move the transfer bar safely, lock the action, and fire the cartridge. 

If in doubt only load five cartridges in a six chambered cylinder ensuring the empty chamber is the one under the hammer.  You when you load by loading chamber #1, leaving chamber #2 empty, then load chambers #3, #4, #5, and #6.  When you then bring the hammer back to full cock from half cock and lower it over a chamber, the lowered hammer will be over the empty chamber. 

With top break single action revolvers the procedure will be slightly different.

 

 

 

2:50 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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Bill is correct and I believe the berretta Stampede and some of the newer Uburtis (FYI a stampede is just a nicer uburti with berretta on it) Taylor and company I'm not sure. But they are all owned by berretta. the Uburtis that have a safety is like a screw on the right side of the gun towards the front right of the cylinder of the gun you gotta screw it down then unscrew and it pops up like a spring is under it and there probably is. Mine was.older so it didn't have this option. 

The NAA Mini revolvers are safe to carry fully loaded because they have a notch in the cylinder that the hammer rests in, and when you pull the hammer back then it advances to the loaded cylinder. Another great gun I got rid of a miss alot for 200-300 bucks it was a great little gun.

7:23 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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tracker clayton 2 said:

the Uburtis that have a safety is like a screw on the right side of the gun towards the front right of the cylinder of the gun you gotta screw it down then unscrew and it pops up like a spring is under it and there probably is.

 Transfer bars are totally different.  It's a hammer block.


A_Fire4.jpg

They often screw up what can otherwise be an excellent trigger pull.  I won't own a SA revolver with one.

8:09 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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I like the older guns without transfer bars. One of the axioms of gun safety is learn good safe habits so that you automatically do the right thing under duress. My friend's round in the leg should give people caution. 

9:22 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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I am not conversant with handguns, but it seems that if you are wary of branches, mules, etc., advancing the cylinder, that that is what full flap holsters prevent. Am I wrong in this?

9:38 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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I was just pointing out a fact and on the Uburtis it's much farther forward on the lower right. It never made.a.difference in the one I owned it had the same nice trigger as the one with out the safety. Now I never used the safety on my 1 uburti. I prefer guns without safeties that's one reason I like single actions. To me it's like an unloaded gun worthless just learn to keep your finger in the register position until your ready to fire. More parts just means more.problems. I got enough double actions and none do it for me.

9:44 p.m. on March 9, 2016 (EST)
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overmywaders I'm not worried about my glocks or H&Ks going off buy accident just a.single action and as long as I just carry 5 instead of 6 I feel fine. 

12:42 a.m. on March 31, 2016 (EDT)
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2 states have now made concealed carry legal with no permit. I believe one is Tennessee and the other is Maine. Now this does not allow you to carry everywhere and in Maine the park system is a no go I believe. I don't know if this affects open carry or not? Your best to call the state police and get this info also getting a Utah permit which you can get as an out of state resident will allow you to carry in most of the US. I believe Nevada is another good one to have along with Florida. Look and call and follow all state and local laws please. I'm just passing on new info I got and you should check that too!....lol. UScarry is a good site opencarry.org? is another one it maybe .Com I forget? Always check with state police though. There maybe mag restrictions ect.

5:30 p.m. on March 31, 2016 (EDT)
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Most certainly check with the NYSP anytime you want to bring a gun, hand or long, into NYS, cause the laws here are tough and restrictive most especially concerning handguns, thumbhole stocks in long arms, military styles, magazine capacities, etc, etc,.

12:57 a.m. on April 1, 2016 (EDT)
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Old Guide is correct also MD,DC,California,all are very unfriendly to firearms as are some other states. California does have a grey area which is in the remote areas but check with the local police on that. Never take the Internets word for anything and also ask the police where the laws are online so you can print them if possible because not every officer knows all the laws especially when it comes to knives.

9:01 a.m. on April 2, 2016 (EDT)
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Waders,

Finding a full flap holster is difficult except for a few military handguns like a 1911, and the early Colt Peacemaker.  It is a good idea, but would  require making one or finding someone to make a custom holster.

10:44 p.m. on April 2, 2016 (EDT)
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I'm trying to find a western style belt and holster for my glock. I've seen them for 1911s and they looked really nice. I've talked to my leather maker and he is interested in the project it's just finding time with all the knife sheaths he has orders for. yeah I know I'm putting lipstick on a pig but I want a dedicated gun belt that I don't gotta thread through my belt loops and looks good. 

1:52 a.m. on April 4, 2016 (EDT)
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overmywaders...it's more a case of the hammer striking the primer. You drop the gun or something hits the hammer and bang! So the cylinder doesn't need to advance, the hammer just needs to be on a live round on a single action that has no safety or an uburti ect. These are western style revolvers not new modern double actions and not all new style western revolvers have this issue just a few. Bill is definitely the man when it comes to revolvers so if I'm wrong he will correct me. 

Another firearm that you can find a full cover holster for is the berretta 92. I've never really looked for them.

My daily carry holster is a Bladetech partial equlips  (not recommended for those new to ccw) and when I was working it was a thigh rig or a Blackhawk serpa on my body armor.

11:06 a.m. on April 4, 2016 (EDT)
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Kimber has just come out with a hammerless revolver in .357 mag called  K6.  It comes in stainless steel and holds 6 rounds, but only weighs a pound and a half.

1:16 p.m. on April 4, 2016 (EDT)
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Since I have started carrying everyday , I intend to also carry on backpacking trips as well. Whereas before I never did. I was never against the idea, but now I plan to carry because I want to, because I made a choice to carry every day of my life whenever i can legally do so until the end of my life.

That being said, If its a realtively short trip I would carry anything that you are comfortable and proficent with. Most all modern firearms have plenty of integrated safety functions by design to prevent firing if dropped etc.

I would probally carry my s&w model 66 4in .357mag revolver the vast majority of the time, more than likely on a shoulder holster, or belt holster on my pack belt, and then put it on my belt when in camp. If I was doing a long distance trip and it was legal to do so I would probably carry something small and light like a ruger lcp.

I carry for two legged critters. If I were to be doing a trip in Grizzly country etc I would probably carry the 66 regardless. In my normal home range, I am not worried about the wildlife.

10:40 p.m. on April 4, 2016 (EDT)
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ppine I knew I should have made it to Shot Show this year I'm sure that's where Kimber released it. I do like hammers on revolvers but with a hammerless one no snags if carrying concealed. I had 1 Kimber and it was a custom classic I liked it but I did sell it as I want a Chris Chambers custom 1911 so bad.

TheRambler....I can't let go of my tactical Tupperware...lol. I'm not in grizzly country either and if I was I'd just convert my glock to a 10mm. I daily carry a 45acp and 2 mags . I have revolvers in the family safe but not ones I'm willing to take and bang up in the woods. I do need to go buy a beater 357mag but I have suppressors on the brain right now I wanted 2 but now I want 3 now! Bill convinced me to stray from my beloved glocks and then suppressors made me stray from the revolver. I will probably end up with an uburti cattlemen again, they won't break the bank and I really liked mine before I sold it. Up where you are is there mag capacity restrictions? was your permit easy to get? I'm always curious I'm in VA no mag restrictions and permit took 28days...now with no permit you can open carry but I think you have restrictions? I get a permit just to avoid any restrictions ect.

7:47 a.m. on April 5, 2016 (EDT)
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ppine said:

Also; One can always have a full flap holster made for any handgun or knife and if they go to the right people it won't cost them an arm or leg either.

And many people say they would never carry while on the trail but anyone who has ever needed a firearm while out, some who didn't live to tell about it, would highly disagree. One may take all the precautions in the world but criminals and critters could care less.

Waders,

Finding a full flap holster is difficult except for a few military handguns like a 1911, and the early Colt Peacemaker.  It is a good idea, but would  require making one or finding someone to make a custom holster.

 

7:49 a.m. on April 5, 2016 (EDT)
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Personally I use an ambidextrous IWB holster. I put it in the front just to the inside of my right thigh as long as im standing. I have not noticed any issues with hiking, although I think if you got into the 50 plus mile range with it it would become heavy and create some chaffing. I know it definitely creates alot of sweat so I generally leave it home. The only time I really remove it is when I sit on the ground and my knees are up around my ears for awhile because it does have a small tendency to dig in when im curled up in a ball. Also reserving a waist pocket for my PF9 seems reasonable and I can still get a bar in beside it. I also only run about a half stack or so to save on weight. 

12:09 a.m. on April 7, 2016 (EDT)
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Old Guide  your right . I can conceal carry but I don't I want people to see I'm carrying. Why? Because that let's people know I'm not a target and for critters I don't got to dig for it. I get asked alot about it by other hikers and campers and just normal people and I always take the time to talk with them and be respectful. I see it as being an ambassador and I'm not exactly easy to approach tattoos,longish hair, gun,knife,tomahawk so if you walk up to me and wanna chat I'm going to be polite. 

5:37 a.m. on April 7, 2016 (EDT)
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Old Guide said:

ppine said:

Also; One can always have a full flap holster made for any handgun or knife and if they go to the right people it won't cost them an arm or leg either. 

Some knives come with flap holsters.  This Grohmann #3 Army is an example.  It's the sheath that makes this knife the Army model and the knife with sheath can be found for lass than $60 USD from Canadian vendors who ship into the USA.
Grohmann%2520%25233%2520CAF%2520%283%29.

Having a holster maker or sheath maker make a flap holster can be expensive; however, it need not be.  My experience has been to go to furriers/saddlemakers to have such products made to get quality products relatively inexpensively.  I've had saddlemakers make me all kinds of things from their scraps.

11:06 a.m. on April 7, 2016 (EDT)
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That is a great knife sheath design. I came off a horse once and had a really sharp knife fall out of the friction type sheath it was carried in.  I can only imagine what would have happened if I had landed on it 35 miles from the trailhead.

10:18 p.m. on April 7, 2016 (EDT)
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ppine  35 miles out with a knife wound. That would just not be good.  I'm still amazed at companies like Busse who sell you a knife and no sheath?

 I used to collect them and it got to the point that between all the Busse's,Swamp Rats,and Scrapyards I couldn't afford sheaths for them all. 

Now look at Bills knife $60 and comes with a sheath 

Imagine if that had been a firearm. That would have been a oh sh*t moment.

1:39 a.m. on April 8, 2016 (EDT)
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As I looked at suppressors tonight I ran across the Howdah pistols. I just can't imagine how wild places like India and Africa had to be to actually create a need for a firearm just to deal with large predators. It reminds me of that movie I think it was called...The Ghost And The Darkness?  Having been to Africa a lion eating me was low on my list and I think hippos kill and injure more people anyways.Unfortunately now poachers have done significant damage to all the cool critters. I hunt but not every year and just for food so I'm still confused as to how pulling off the Big 10 is possible?  Elephant and lion are on that list which I thought were protected?

5:08 a.m. on April 8, 2016 (EDT)
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tracker clayton 2 said:

It reminds me of that movie I think it was called...The Ghost And The Darkness?

Based(loosely) on Patterson's book, The Man-Eaters of Tsavo.  LTC Patterson, an Irish engineer in Africa leading efforts to build a railway, took the lions with the 6.5X54mm rifle cartridge.  Those lions are stuffed and in Chicago's Natural History Museum.

 


Colonel_Patterson_with_Tsavo-Lion.jpg

1:08 p.m. on April 8, 2016 (EDT)
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A very interesting movie that deals with fear.  I have seen it many times and learn something new every time. 

One of the things I have learned in the bush is to never be under gunned. Taking a .357 mag as protection from humped bears is a bad idea. They have too much bone for light loads.  It is easy to bounce a round off a skull for instance.

I will never forget the first time I ran into one of the coastal brownies in AK at close range.  I looked down at the Ruger SBH .44 mag on my hip and just about wet my pants.  I carried a rifle after that.  Be smart and you will never have to use firearms.

3:02 p.m. on April 8, 2016 (EDT)
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Bill thanks for the info I just knew that there were 2 lions picking off people as they built the railroad and that's all I knew now I can actually look more into it. Too bad they are in Chicago as I'll probably never go there or atleast no time soon.

ppine I'll take a 10mm into grizzly country I'd prefer it have no more than a 6 inch barrel and be using quality ammo like buffalo bore, but a handgun is definitely not a rifle which I'd like as my primary firearm if I were say hanging out on Kodiak island. I agree if your smart you can avoid a bad confrontation. I've had more issues with coyotes and wild dogs than any other critter.

12:37 a.m. on April 9, 2016 (EDT)
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Bill I keep looking at that picture and thinking about what's in its belly! It's amazing all the different rifle cartridges and handgun rounds that there have been and still are around. I'm sure the exact number is staggering especially if we count black powder and flintlocks if they differ I don't have much to any knowledge on those 2.

9:29 a.m. on April 9, 2016 (EDT)
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The 6.5 was regularly used for cull hunting of elephant because with excellent sectional density it penetrated well.

Obviously the shots were well placed by experts.

10:31 a.m. on April 9, 2016 (EDT)
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The 6.5X54mm Mannlicher Schönauer is the large game hunting cartridge I use.  I load 180 grain Sierra soft points (no longer made).
DSCN0324.JPG

In Hawaii in the mid-90s I picked up an M1903 Mannlicher Schönauer action made by Steyr in 1909.  In the late-90s I had a custom rifle built on it.
M1903-14%2520MS.jpg
DSCN0289.JPG
M1903-14%2520MS%2520Stock.jpg
DSCN0299.JPG
It has a hand fit, hand carved, hand inletted, hand checkered walnut stock on a blank I hand picked.  The barrel is custom Krieger blank, custom turned and crowned.  I had the chamber reamed with 0.0012" freebore for the cartridge with the 180 grain Sierra bullet.

 

 

11:40 a.m. on April 9, 2016 (EDT)
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Nice rifle Bill. My Dad shot them for years.

We still talk about Dad's heart shot at 450 yards in SD on an enormous mule deer in the wind.  His Mannlicher had the full stock and came in 7mm.  I always liked the butter knife bolt handle. 

I used to have a Colt-Sauer made in Germany in .25-06.  It would shoot 3 shot groups that were touching at 100 yards.

Now I have a 1948 Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 with a Leupold 2.5-8.  It was my great uncle's rifle until he willed it to me.

This discussion might seem off topic, but not if you are backpacking in AK.  i would bring the Model 71 Winchester in .348 for that job.

12:43 a.m. on April 10, 2016 (EDT)
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WOW! Bill that's a very nice rifle! I may have to atleast try even if I'm not successful at atleast finding an action and going from there to get 1. As I've gotten older I've started to appriciate firearms like that fine rifle and Purdy shotguns more than modern firearms. I really should get my collectors license so I can skip the need to ship old arms to a dealer . Again Bill that's a great rifle.

5:01 a.m. on April 10, 2016 (EDT)
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Just so you understand --- if you have a rifle built like above, when the rifle is done you'll have spent more than the rifle will be worth monetarily when you are done.  Also plan on twice the estimated build time.  From both the rifle smith and the woodworker.

5:55 a.m. on April 10, 2016 (EDT)
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I gotcha Bill. I don't mind if it takes sometime and money. Im guessing finding the action alone is gonna take sometime and I got no other real projects in the works. I'll probably start looking after I buy my suppressor if I decide their really worth it.

3:32 p.m. on April 18, 2016 (EDT)
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Well Bill I think I'll be grabbing a 357mag in June. I'll be going single action again, but you forced me to buy one...lol. The only thing that would change my mind is a glock at a great price or a rifle and maybe a shotgun at a steal.

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