How many light sources.

1:52 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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When I first started backpacking, I'm not sure they even had battery powered headlamps.  Cavers were still using carbide lanterns.  If they did have battery powered headlamps, I'm sure they were crap.  Even the ones I used twenty years ago are a far cry from the ones you can buy now.  So I always took along a hand held flashlight too, as backup, and because it was brighter than the headlamp.

Question is, do I still need to carry backup and should that backup be a flashlight, rather than a head lamp?  With super bright LEDs, headlamps have become very powerful, long lasting, and reliable.  I almost feel like taking a second light source is overkill.

5:59 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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Randall been carrying an extra light source for camp now for a number of years to save on my headlamp batteries...Its been ideal for an item weighs very little and can do reading ect in the tent or hammock....Its the Black diamond orbit latern...

8:13 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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Depends on a couple of factors for me...one is the length of night and also the length of trip. Usually on short trips a headlamp is all I carry but also occasionally take a candle lantern or other device. I do take this small backup light that weighs half an ounce and fits on my cap on some trips...very light and cheap backup. https://www.trailspace.com/gear/amphipod/swift-clip-cap-light/#review36502

8:15 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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Murphy is always waiting so I always carry a 2nd headlamp along with extra batteries. When my friend Chad and I hiked the Tripyramids we did half the descent in the dark and his flashlight stopped working. Since I had a spare headlamp I let him use it and told him to keep it afterward. (I miss that headlamp, a Princeton Tec Fuel4. It was so simple, unlike my Black Diamonds with their dozen or so modes!) It was also handy having 2 for the mile we had to walk on the pitch-black Kancamagus Highway to reach the vehicles, he lit the way and I had mine on backward & set to strobe to warn any vehicles coming from behind. Usually the spare is a BD ReVolt with rechargeable batteries so I can just use my solar charger. If I’m going to be camping I have my BD Orbit or Moji (thanks TS!) lantern as well.

8:21 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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Well I guess I do a little over kill in this area. I usually carry 2 xtra . And sometimes on weekend trips will even carry a mini lantern that attaches to my gas canisters and works darn near as good as the big ones. It is nice to have when I don’t have or want a fire. And since the batteries are interchangeable no need to carry xtras.

really though 2 is enough as an accident or malfunction can happen with one. I carry a Petzl MYO-XP head lamp $85 back then, that I bought around 2010 that works beyond my best expectations and also has a built in spot lite. Thank goodness it has never let me down so far. And then I carry my trusty AA mag lite just because with my job having used about every flashlight and head lamp known too man over the last 30 years, it rocks! It’s rugged durable incredibly versatile, outshines the majority of lights on the market and is probably the best value on the market at around $10. And then I have a little BRUTON flashlight/lantern that I bought back around 2007 for $22 that I usually have in my pack or pocket and is a good little xtra for all things.

Good to have reassurance when things go bump in the night or nature calls. Over kill? Sure, but I like lite.

10:16 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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We used to use candle lanterns and carbide lamps.  Then some good flashlights.  The first headlamps were clunky with big round lenses and incandescent bulbs.  Everyone looked nerdy wearing those. 

I carry two headlamps now.  I have given away lights to people stumbling down the trail in the dark in places like Mt Whitney. For a longer trip I would take 3.

11:09 a.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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We are daytime creatures; having a light when it gets dark is almost imperative.  If some UL Nazi tries to convince you the ounce or two a back up light weighs is unnecessary weight, tell them to see their therapist, and to stop letting their OCD rule their world.

My light kit is a headlamp and a hand held light that can be suspended by a string for overhead light around camp.  It is a good cook area light.  Thus my backup serves to provide lighting around camp on those trips that don't permit a camp fire.  Spare batteries are a good idea too on longer trips.  (I hope this advice doesn't send some of the UL nut jobs over the edge.)

Ed

4:30 p.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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whomeworry said:

  If some UL Nazi

.  (I hope this advice doesn't send some of the UL nut jobs over the edge.)

Ed

 It did ! Unfortunately they have now joined the naked ( seriously UL) and NOT afraid crowd ( I know what I’m doing) cause they are going to send the gestapo after you.

10:33 p.m. on June 29, 2019 (EDT)
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I use a single-AAA headlamp, carry a single AAA flashlight backup, and a single AAA spare. Sometimes I carry a Uco candle lamp for in-camp convenience. I use the beeswax candles. If I want more light I have a Surefire 6p with a 900-lumen drop-in, but as I rarely do any night-scrambling, I rarely carry it. 

I've also got the original Luci solar lamp, which is surprisingly bright for the weight/design. It just hangs on a tree branch.

10:19 a.m. on June 30, 2019 (EDT)
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We bring a headlamp apiece and a Luci for the camp.  Luci solar charges, and gives off a more diffuse light for inside the tent.  In the last fifteen years we've never had a headlamp die. They get slowly dimmer and let you know well ahead of time that they are losing steam...

9:32 a.m. on July 2, 2019 (EDT)
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Are all ultralighters "Nazis"?

Are there anti-ultralighter Nazis? (Yes)

9:35 p.m. on July 2, 2019 (EDT)
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UL'ers can be unreasonable fanatics. My own prior overzealousness was due to a sudden recognition and appreciation of the massive difference that a lighter pack can make. It was such a revolution for me, as a person who traditionally packs the kitchen sink, that I couldn't keep quiet.

I came to understand UL as a philosophy, so now it's more of a mindset that has lost its novelty. Plus, going to the bleeding edge of UL can help one gain an appreciation for creature comforts. Only now do I know how much I like a good canister stove.

Likewise, I took lighting to the ragged edge, until I found myself trying to night-hike down a root-strewn trail with a button-cell led light clipped to a ball cap. No bueno.

10:58 p.m. on July 2, 2019 (EDT)
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Consider caving. There the long established practice has been three separate sources o light.  On occasion, I have been down to my third light, and this has been the case with others.

Above ground, darkness is a little different.  There is usually some ambient light, often enough to allow hiking with little or no light - clear sky and full to half moon.  I usually carry at least one light, even on day hikes where hiking at night is not planned. If going out at night, I include a second light, usually powered by an 18650 battery with variable light levels, a feature that extends battery life considerably'

There are plenty of ways to reduce weight, but adequate light is a high priority and good lighting is not heavy.

9:34 a.m. on July 3, 2019 (EDT)
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Seems like in the age of the internet we always get down to either/or approaches and labels.  I am not a "UL" guy but do have what I consider a light pack (base weight under 17lbs for three seasons including a lot of comfort items).  A couple of thoughts after reading through everyone's discussion...

Why is there only one answer for every kind of trip?  I recognize that light is critical but I certainly don't take it on all trips. Each and every trip I go through my gear checklist and make a determination on what to carry based on the length of trip, type of trip, and expected (and reasonably unexpected) conditions.

Some examples of trips where I usually carry just one light (a good LED headlamp with good batteries), supplemented sometimes with a camp light (lantern), or a 0.5 ounce clip-on for around camp - not for hiking (like pillowthread said it isn't suited for that).

  • Scotland last year and this year - sunset at around 10 and doesn't get really dark at all or at least till 11:30.  Light seeps back in around 3 am and sunrise around 4:30, at least in May. Basically around 3 hours per day when you might not be able to see well enough to get by.  I carried one headlamp with no extra batteries for two weeks of backpacking.  Maybe used it three to six times over the two weeks?
  • One to two night trips near home on very familiar turf where I am sure not to do any night hiking (summer trips with long daylight).
  • Trips in full moon with good (cloudless) weather anticipated - obviously means short trip as well since forecasts aren't reliable for very long. There's enough ambient light to get by with at night, even casting shadows.  I can almost see the faces of the werewolves those nights.

Some examples of trips where I consider carrying a back up headlamp or flashlight (often the latter) instead of (or in addition to) a camp light or clip-on, again varying conditions/trips/activities will make the final determination:

  • "Long" trips - i.e. not a weekender so maybe over 2 nights?
  • Goes with the above, but any time I am likely to be reading a good bit in the dark (longer trips is more likely).
  • Trips in fall/winter/spring with long nights or high potential for night hiking.

A few other thoughts:

  • Ambient light lasts a long time in the summer and on either end, when a lot of people go hiking. I don't use campfires for 95% of my trips, which I think greatly affect your eyes acclimation to ambient light.  I seem to be able to see without a light on many nights. I get up at least once a night for "relief" if you know what I mean (I am sure that will become multiple times as I age) and don't remember the last time I had to turn on a headlamp to exit the tent, hydrate the landscape, and get back in.  Maybe that's just years of practice/routine where I know where everything is and how to get in/out of my tarptent. It would seem to wake me up more if I had to turn a light on.
  • LED lights have almost eliminated bulb failure, and as mentioned by balzaccom batteries give you a lot of warning when they begin to die.
  • When I do take a backup its usually a small flashlight for variety.  I sometimes don't want the light source right above my eyes and always turning when I do.
  • I rarely take extra batteries now.  Instead for longer trips I make sure they are fresh (take out suspect/used ones and save them for a short trip).  I can't recall a battery failing on me in over 30 years of hiking.  I keep mine warm (chest pocket) in winter.
  • I get the contention that light is essential and therefore taking two is recommended.  However, sticking to that thought and taking it to its extreme...if you only carry what you consider essential, should you carry two of everything and double your pack weight?  Some items are more essential depending on the trip and conditions...
  • Caving is not hiking - two very distinct discussions there.  Three lights is pretty much mandatory I would think, but I'm no mole so leave that to others.

Probably over complicated things but just felt verbose this morning.

Happy hiking (in the dark or light).

11:50 a.m. on July 3, 2019 (EDT)
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i tend to bring a backup headlamp, or at least extra batteries.

this might be a fun alternative, though 4x AA batteries.  https://coastportland.com/collections/led-area-lights/products/eal12

10:31 a.m. on July 17, 2019 (EDT)
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Spelunkers take 3. I usually bring 2 headlamps and a Luci lantern. 

2:50 p.m. on July 17, 2019 (EDT)
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[quote] Question is, do I still need to carry backup and should that backup be a flashlight, rather than a head lamp? With super bright LEDs, headlamps have become very powerful, long lasting, and reliable. I almost feel like taking a second light source is overkill.[/quote]

I don’t presume to know what someone else should do or when they should change up the gear list based on a precise trip and it’s set of issues. We usually take one good headlamp apiece and at times the smallest lantern Black Diamond makes. That does make a good camp beacon for those coming into camp from the darkness. Usually just one headlamp apiece though. My iPhone is my gps and camera for photojournalism and it has a good flashlight function. That will work for short durations. I have not had to use that yet. I could eke out a little nest with that light if need be. I’m not UL but try to not carry unnecessary things that clutter up the pack.

The fact is, most of the canyon terrain we hike in has places that are just too difficult and dangerous to move through, finding precise entrances and exit points in darkness, even with a powerful headlamp. We have a plan always set to pass the night in place if we don’t make a certain check point in time for that kind of terrain. We scan possibilities as we go. In some moderate terrain I’ve walked for miles in total darkness without using any light bunches of times. With lower vision issues now I might not do that anymore.

There is more than one sufficient answer to your question depending on your skills, experience, how you handle issues that pop up and a number of other variables.

I found an old carbide lamp on one of my adventures with carbide still rattling around in the lower chamber. It looks super antique. Amazing little object.

[quote] If some UL Nazi tries to convince you the ounce or two a back up light weighs is unnecessary weight, tell them to see their therapist, and to stop letting their OCD rule their world.[/quote]

Their OCD? The internet can be hilarious at times…

7:31 p.m. on July 17, 2019 (EDT)
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ghostdog said:

[quote] If some UL Nazi tries to convince you the ounce or two a back up light weighs is unnecessary weight, tell them to see their therapist, and to stop letting their OCD rule their world.[/quote]

Their OCD? The internet can be hilarious at times…

 

Come on fellas you know they would never carry OCD! Heck it weighs more than a GRAM :)

8:18 p.m. on July 17, 2019 (EDT)
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John Starnes said:

ghostdog said:

[quote] If some UL Nazi tries to convince you the ounce or two a back up light weighs is unnecessary weight, tell them to see their therapist, and to stop letting their OCD rule their world.[/quote]

Their OCD? The internet can be hilarious at times…

 

Come on fellas you know they would never carry OCD! Heck it weighs more than a GRAM :)

Excellent! ;)

10:51 p.m. on July 17, 2019 (EDT)
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Call me a Nazi if need be.  In most circumstances I'd never carry a 2nd light.  In 50 years of backpacking I've had one lamp failure and once ran out the battery.  Neither were more than an inconvenience. 

If my plan is to night hike, then yes I'll bring a back up.  But if not then my experience says its just a waste.

5:56 a.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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Steve...you're on the web...its all about labels and being wrong if you do things a bit differently from others...of course you just jinxed yourself and the lamp will fail on your next trip. 

6:18 a.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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stevet said:

Call me a Nazi if need be.  In most circumstances I'd never carry a 2nd light.  In 50 years of backpacking I've had one lamp failure and once ran out the battery.  Neither were more than an inconvenience. 

If my plan is to night hike, then yes I'll bring a back up.  But if not then my experience says its just a waste.

 it’s just a little fun back and forth to pass the time . Both sides think the other is a bunch of crazy nut jobs. And of course both sides are correct:) 

have a laugh. I do every time an Ultra liter blows by me on the trail.

8:11 a.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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UL and UL nazi are not the same thing.

UL means making a personal choice to carry less.

UL nazis make a personal choice that EVERYONE must carry less.

On topic response: It is situational. Solo, distance trips I carry a tiny, rechargeable led. Family and cold weather trips, especially in the winter, I carry a backup lamp with extra batteries.

8:40 a.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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I like that description...my comment wasn't to John or Ed, who I know are just having fun.  More a general statement on social media in jest.  All good.  Nazi may be just too harsh a term for those who wish to impress their ways upon others (rather than express views which is just fine)...how about UL Evangelist instead for folks who like to force their gospel on others whether they ask for it or not? I hate the labels, so usually go with CL (comfortably light) but could be put in the UL category on some items...I guess I'm agnostic.

3:23 p.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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Boy I should have known better!  Me bad for the unintentional trolling.

The Nazi reference was inspired by the vehement posts chiding others I've seen on other web sites, where personal dispersions having nothing to do with the topic were leveled at against specific individuals. 

Should anyone balk at  my OCD reference, its inspiration springs from the years I cycled competitively.  Some UL hiking advocates are like certain competitive cyclists I used to ride with, who'd spend hours drilling holes in aluminum brake and gear shift levers levers to shed 1/4 ounce off their bikes, and spend $hundreds$ more upgrading to a wheel hub that was 1/2 ounce lighter.  When shedding weight becomes a preoccupation of this magnitude, they aren't being practical, and usually acknowledge they are primarily engaging in a niche hobby within these sports.  But those engaging in extreme UL ideals under the pretense such maniacal commitment yields tangible benefits - $1000 to make a bike 2 ounces lighter, or shortening a tooth brush handle to save weight - well, let's just say they are probably deluding themselves.  At that extreme it is reasonable to label this an obsession; but please understand I was applying the OCD label with my tongue firmly in cheek.

As for having a back up light, one post suggested decades of experience had taught such caution was unnecessary.  In fact I have made the choice to carry very little in the way of a first aid kit - both of these practices may have consequences.  In my case I find the contents of most first aid kits can be substituted in a pinch by other items I already pack; therefore me such a kit is redundant.  As for light failure, a bad battery can cause this; so can dropping the light.  It happens.  But if one can argue they always are in camp after sunset and never venture out, they may have a point that a second light is redundant.  (And under that logic any light may be considered  optional.)  This can be a rational choice; I have been on trips where broken bones occurred; nevertheless we chose to evacuate, moving only in daylight.  Had these been severe injuries requiring urgent care, the runner would have been sent off with a backup light, provided by another camper if it came to that.  In any case I think every group, including solo travelers, should have at least two lights in the group, if not a light for every person.  If one is so obsessed with lightening their load to the point of not bringing a 2 ounce back up light, I suggest looking at their waist line; most of us can lose more than several pounds, there,  before it becomes an issue.

Ed

 

8:14 p.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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From 2006 to 2017 I spent about $1,000 to lighten my pack by about 20 lb. In about a year-and-a-half after that I lighten my load another 20 lb by eating less and saving money on food. Go figure.

8:56 p.m. on July 18, 2019 (EDT)
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No worries guys, I was speaking in jest.  

As to my gear list, the basic list has no redundancy.  But trip conditions dependent I'll selectively double up.  On my few winter trips if solo I'll carry the 2nd stove to ensure I can melt snow.  On summertime desert trips where I plan to hike at night I'll have 2 lamp.  Where water sources are sketchy I'll have a filter and chemical treatment.  

On the other hand, I use a bear cannister whether required or not.  I like the fact that I always have something to sit on and have a make shift water pail for clothes washing or bathing.  Don't really need the bear can that often, but I like it.  

Key as I see it is to think things through and carry what makes you comfortable and gives you confidence to deal with the issues you may encounter.

And though I don't post often to this board, I am good for a bit of "bust'in chops" and poking fun with one another.

9:12 a.m. on July 19, 2019 (EDT)
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I just find it ironic and sad that the comments criticizing ultralighters for making disparaging remarks about others far outnumber the disparaging remarks actually made by ultralighters.

5:10 p.m. on July 19, 2019 (EDT)
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JR: 
I agree there are anti UL Nazis.  There are strident advocates for all manner of humanity.  I get an ear full from some for not carrying a first aid kit that rivals the Mao Clinic ER; or for not carrying a water filter, eperb, cell phone, bear spray, more whisky, etc.  Which all leads me to wonder: why is my pack so big!?   

It is human nature the responses to a troll will outnumber the number of troll like statements.  This is true for any topic.  It is unrealistic to consider that a single remark made by a single person, which offends many, is going to draw only a single, critical reply.  Since the truly vehement are a minority of any group, it follows they will have few coming to their defense when they misbehave, versus those who take umbrage at their comments.  Perhaps this is how the tribe keeps all of us in line.  In any case, I don't think anyone believes that all ULers disparage by nature or suffer a personality derangement.  

Ed

5:37 p.m. on July 19, 2019 (EDT)
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JRinGeorgia said:

I just find it ironic and sad that the comments criticizing ultralighters for making disparaging remarks about others far outnumber the disparaging remarks actually made by ultralighters.

 My comment might have been mistaken. Though I’m no ultralighter I found the original OCD comment so completely ironic and ridiculous to the point of being hilarious and hence my question; Their OCD? But did think John’s follow up was just being light hearted with a sharp wit. 

9:47 p.m. on July 19, 2019 (EDT)
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To GD, my point is more general, and to Ed, my point is more specific, and it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

There is a consistent theme among some/many non-UL hikers that ULers are to be looked at as a lunatic fringe, obsessed over meaningless differences, and constantly preachy about it. Undoubtedly there are some ULers who fit that bill. But the bigger picture is that the people who complain about these "attacks" are in fact the ones doing most of the attacking.

I think the spirit of the "Nazi" comment is better phrased as "gear Nazis", because while it might be that there are ultralighters who would feel you don't need a second light source, there also are flashlight fetishists who are just if not more likely to preach that you should carry a half dozen lights each costing hundreds of dollars.

As a ULer myself it irks me sometimes that UL is so frequently attacked. I don't think I get preachy about it (slap me down if I ever do). Most ULers I know are incredibly bright and engineer the &#*! out of any problem, including how to lighten their backpack, and then they are very generous in sharing that knowledge, always looking for a better way, and are tolerant of others finding their own happy place. 

And what's especially astonishing is that the discussions from those attacking ULers usually go something like this:

  • <spoken with much primate chest-thumping> Ultralighters are nuts/idiots/dangerous/Nazis/fill-in-your-own-insult.
  • I'm no nut/idiot/dangerous/etc, I've found my own perfect balance of gear, and I'm manly-man enough to carry it.
  • Of course, my pack used to be heavier, but I've swapped out some/all of my gear piece by piece over the years because I don't like carrying a heavy pack any more than anyone else.
  • I pick and choose among the ultralight gear and ultralight ideology to suit my tastes.
  • <grudgingly, and usually not said explicitly> Yeah, I guess the ULers do have a point.

In the end, almost every agrees that it's a good principle to lighten your load and pick and choose from UL "enlightenment" what works for you. Which is exactly what the whole UL thing is about in the first place. So I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction to ridiculing and criticizing ULers.

I'd like to see a little more respect for anyone who has a good idea that can be borrowed, hikes their own hike, and respects the wilderness. That would describe most if not all of the ULers I know, and plenty of non-ULers as well.

I'm sure the original comment in this thread was made partly tongue-in-cheek. But look at how quickly it snowballed and others piled on the bandwagon. It's easy to jeer at stereotypes, it's all just harmless, right?

OK, rant off.

9:56 p.m. on July 19, 2019 (EDT)
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Trailspace is a good place to rant...all good folks with varying opinions. I think half the problem is the labels...what is a ULer and who decides? And when did that person, group, etc get appointed to determine what is light, ultralight etc? Isn't it all just a gradient from heavy to light and everyone is somewhere on that spectrum? Why label it with the U when everyone does want a lighter pack and generally upgrades gear to the lightest possible that they feel comfortable and safe with? 

2:59 a.m. on July 20, 2019 (EDT)
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Jr: 
Yes, I was being very flippant with my adjectives.  I was poking, not digging.  We get you.  I think you get me too.  Gear Nazis - a broad category for which both uber ULers and uber heavy packers are niche categories.  You could put sundry gear-aholics in there too, but I think  "tinkerer" is more apt for these folks, or gear fetish if you wish to make a poke. 

I think my inner Nazi is best described as a camp comfort Nazi.  Here's to Four Roses Burbon!  Prost!  I don't have issues with sound UL practices, but it isn't for me as I see practiced in the Sierra.  These folks often end up bedding down at sunset because they do not have sufficient layers to comfortably stay out after dark.  On the other hand I like to stay up under the stars.  They also have to hustle like hell to get on trail in the morning for the same reason.  I usually like to start slow, have a couple of cups of coffee before starting the morning routines.  They provision for nutrition, whereas I provision for the delight of good eating.  These all are only life style issues.  I think the practice of marginal comfort is too extreme, however, when extended into the late season and thereafter.  In mid September the temps can fluctuate with several mild days followed by significantly colder days.  Some folks flout conventional wisdom, thinking they will be OK with their mid July UL layers, only to find themselves forced to make Big Miles because a cold snap with afternoon rains and single digit nights swept in on them three days from the car.  Those are the ULers that concern me.  It is one thing when this is done out of ignorance - I've done almost every stupid thing one can do in the BC over the years - we all eventually learn.  But when the reply to the potential of this scenario is something like "My 5 pound kit has always covers me", well I guess it is the hubris of that attitude that flusters others.  Likewise for the couple I encountered on the same hike at 5:30 pm, in mid September on the JMT.  They had already hiked 14 miles that day, gaining over 3000' elevation in the process, but were still twelve miles and and 3,000' in elevation changes from their objective.  The specter of night hiking on a late moon rise evening loomed large; and they only had those little bitty LED penlights, and their entire kit was the size of those bear canisters most folks fill with food for a trip of this duration.  I have no idea how they could be comfortable or well fed.  Perhaps the Joe ULers who have tons of experience may pull these situations off with aplomb, but the folks I am mentioning herein are more youthful gym rat, than seasoned John Muir types.  I am pretty sure you agree these are practices that border on being irresponsible.

Ed  

8:19 a.m. on July 22, 2019 (EDT)
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For every "ULer" I've seen who has pared down their kit past the point of common sense just for weight and therefore risking safety, I've also seen someone lumbering along under a pack weight so great they are drastically increasing their chance of an injury or stumble on the trail.  To each their own - I'll continue to sit happily on the spectrum between the extremes and vary where I am based on miles, conditions, and type of trip.

3:49 p.m. on July 22, 2019 (EDT)
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FlipNC said:

For every "ULer" I've seen who has pared down their kit past the point of common sense just for weight and therefore risking safety, I've also seen someone lumbering along under a pack weight so great they are drastically increasing their chance of an injury or stumble on the trail.  To each their own - I'll continue to sit happily on the spectrum between the extremes and vary where I am based on miles, conditions, and type of trip.

I definitely used to fall into the later category, but I was exceptionally strong - and I guess lucky not to have fallen.  Nowadays I have lightened the load; with a week long  trip pack at about 45 pounds.  But I am still carrying most of the community gear, too.

Ed

6:34 p.m. on July 22, 2019 (EDT)
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Since this thread has turned into something different than the intended subject, I have to add something that is in a book I’m currently reading, Early Days in the Range of Light. Remember, I’m a medium weight backpacker trying to be a medium/light. 

“On their honeymoon in 1896, Bolton and Lucy Brown hiked across the width of the Sierra to climb a new route on Mount Williamson, and Bolton estimated that with their provisions for four days, his pack weighed twelve pounds and Lucy’s weighed three. The “fast-and-light” mentality sweeping through today’s outdoors community would be entirely familiar to the first generation of mountaineers.”

I just started the book and am intrigued by some of the subjects he is going to discuss. Even if we never become UL I think we can learn things still and have conversations where even if we don’t agree we can at least be steady and cool about it.

9:31 p.m. on July 22, 2019 (EDT)
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That's one to add to my list of future reads...lots of old school folks had light kits.

October 17, 2019
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