drawing water

10:59 p.m. on April 6, 2017 (EDT)
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What do people use to get water in to containers when they don't use a pumping filter?  I am trying not to dunk the whole bag or bottle in to untreated water so as not to contaminate the outside of the container and the threaded cap.  Years ago using iodine tablets I would just splash the iodine treated water around the opening.  Is that good enough for the modern tablets that need four hours before drinking?

12:06 a.m. on April 7, 2017 (EDT)
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It is good enough. I use the two-part liquid Aquamira version...mix 7 drops of each per liter in the cap of your chapstick, wait five minutes, dump it in, invert bottle and loosen cap till water leaks out. Seal and wait however long you feel you need to.

3:47 a.m. on April 7, 2017 (EDT)
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One way or the other you will need to make sure the bottle lip and cap are not contaminated.  You seem to be seeking a solution to use with filters that doesn't use chemicals. 

One solution is to have a dirty water container used for collecting water, and one or more clean water container that does not contact contaminated sources.  One simply uses the dirty container to draw from the water source, then use the filte/pump to treat and transfer water to the clean containers.

Another solution is to declare all containers as clean containers and have some means to address the contaminated thread and cap issue.  If you use any special chemicals make sure the pickling time is adequate, per the product instructions. You can also use household chemicals to sterilize surfaces. Two household chemicals you can use for this application are hydrogen peroxide and bleach.  Either one of these used undiluted will work virtually immediately upon application.  But since these are not fit for consumption, you will have to make sure none of the chemical finds its way into you potable water.  You should also rinse off the chemical residue off the bottle and cap after treatment. 

You do not state where you camp.  Vast portions of the US and Canadian outdoors require no treatment whatsoever.  I VERY rarely treat water I consume as a Sierra hiker, and have experienced no ill effects in over 50 years as an avid camper.  You can research the water quality of your intended venues on the web; municipalities and universities survey and publish water quality from the wildernesses we camp.  Lastly do note most purported cases of water borne illness are not the result of contaminated water sources; instead they arise from poor personal hygiene habits, be they yours or your fellow travel companions failing to wash their hands after latrine visits and other opportune moments.

Ed

 

10:58 p.m. on April 7, 2017 (EDT)
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Here in the middle of the country, northern Illinois, our water does not flow clean and pure as it must have done a long time ago.  The Illinois EPA once told me a local waterway had "secondary contaminates", I said "huh?", they said "human feces".  So YIKES is the word when I draw water around here.  Even on the Ice Age Trail in Wisconsin I found a beautiful spring at the base of a hill, atop the hill was a trail shelter with a pit toilet.  I take water treatment very seriously when I camp around here.

11:21 p.m. on April 7, 2017 (EDT)
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I have used the method Pillowhead said when using aquamira..I also have used a gravity system..I use know is the Squeeze by sawyer and dont get any dirty water running onto thread on my bottles..You can also put the filter on a smart waterbottle...I know the ice age trail my friend Jenni thru hiked it for warrior Hike...

7:26 a.m. on April 8, 2017 (EDT)
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In trying to save weight I have ditched my pump style filter for chlorine dioxide tablets.  I want to avoid contaminating the container opening and cap with water not reached by the treatment tablets.

I saw the posts from Jenni, totally cool and inspiring.  

9:23 a.m. on April 8, 2017 (EDT)
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Just boil it.

9:55 a.m. on April 8, 2017 (EDT)
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2nd that hikemor

also Curtis like Denis said the sawyer squeeze is great an if it's weight your worried about the mini is 2oz

But if you've have feces in your water supply weight would never even be a consideratio. I'd do whatever it took.you could filter it first then boil it but boiling definitely leaves nothing to chance.

10:56 a.m. on April 8, 2017 (EDT)
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Use a cup, then rinse the cup and the thread and caps with sanitized water, or boil everything.  hikermor always cuts to the heart of the matter.

11:53 a.m. on April 8, 2017 (EDT)
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+1 for using a cup

When I am not using a pump filter (speaking of which I am again sold on pump filters, the MSR Guardian is AMAZING!), I often use my msr titan cup as a scoop and can poor it into whatever container easily. I don't just "drink" out of my cup, if I am pouring water in my cup its because its getting boiled for some food use, tea, coffee etc.

8:02 p.m. on April 8, 2017 (EDT)
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John, I bought a Sawyer Mini five minutes after reading your post, thanks.  Amazon had 'em five bucks less than the big box stores, they even had an orange color that I did not see elsewhere, don't want to leave it at camp.

8:27 a.m. on April 9, 2017 (EDT)
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Curtis good deal. It's incrediblely versital  you will be very happy with it. You can splice it in to a hose and use it as a filter for a camel back or a gravity feed for large amounts and it will also work as a straw. 

One note if using it in freezing conditions make darn sure to shake it out real good so that any remaining water doesn't leak out in you pack or it freezes and bust on you. The larger one that Denis mentioned I have it also and it in 5oz I think and will scfew on to most standard plastic bottles works really good also, although the bags that come with it   Are good for carrying water they are very difficult to fill unless you blow them up and then submerge them. So I'm sure in that case based on what you said the bottles would definitely be better in your circumstances. Happy Trail with peace of mind to you.

8:17 p.m. on April 9, 2017 (EDT)
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Note: it is not a good idea to use a filter in freezing conditions that relies on a membrane.  Ice will clog the filter and as you pump to force water through it, possibly rupturing the membrane, resulting in water bypassing and contaminating your finished product.

Ed  

10:08 p.m. on April 9, 2017 (EDT)
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I was about to type a similar note Ed.  If you take a filter in freezing conditions, you have to use the utmost care.  Shaking the water out will not prevent the membrane from retaining some and ice possibly expanding and cracking the membrane which could cause a bypass around the filter mechanism.  That said I do carry my Sawyer filter (regular not mini as I prefer the flow rate) but always keep it in my pocket so my body heat prevents freezing. At night I transfer it to the bottom of my sleeping bag, but it never sits out in the freezing cold.

6:20 a.m. on April 10, 2017 (EDT)
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Ed & Phil duly noted and I also do similar to Phil in that I carry the larger one and wrap it up.

8:23 a.m. on April 10, 2017 (EDT)
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I have to agree. The Sawyer's are the best treatment method I have ever used, just keep it from freezing and no worries. I also carry a Ziploc full of Clorox wipes when I am hiking. They don't add much wieght and are real handy for keeping water treatment and cooking gear sanitary.

1:31 p.m. on April 10, 2017 (EDT)
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+3 on keeping it on your body during colder temps...I read most people use the smaller one to inline due to the flow rate..I presume the filter is inside the pack more to keep it from freezing..I really don't know..Anyone care to say if you do? 

2:02 p.m. on April 10, 2017 (EDT)
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Denis I've always kept mine inside the pack and wrapped during cold and when it's so cold that water freezes on you dishes while washing then I just generally will filter while the sun is shining which so far knock on wood has worked. As to the mini I just carry it as a back up. I'm like Phil in that I prefer the larger one and trust it more. 

2:12 p.m. on April 10, 2017 (EDT)
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Trips with freezing temps for a good portion of the 24 hour cycle I will leave my Sawyer filters at home and rely on boiling. Being a quilt user stuff tends to fall off the bed during the night and having slept with a filter in my pocket before I'd prefer not to do it again.

Having used both the mini and full sized I am liking the big one better. I run a 3 liter bag through it in just a couple minutes if I do a good job priming the dirty hose on my home made gravity system.

3:43 p.m. on April 10, 2017 (EDT)
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LS-yeah man I can see where that would suck big time in your neck of the woods. Wet spot on the old bed at 10deg would hurt anyones feelings.

9:08 a.m. on April 11, 2017 (EDT)
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I have learned quite a bit from everyone, thank you.  

I do want to bring it back to the starting question, what method do you use to get untreated water from where it is into a container without pumping and without allowing any of that water to contaminate untreated surfaces?

9:37 a.m. on April 11, 2017 (EDT)
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I didn't answer your question original question Curtis because I don't think my answer would be what you are looking for, but I just open my 3l Big Zip and dredge a bag full if I can. If using falling water I hold it up under the drop and for shallow seeps I have a collapsible measuring cup for scooping a little at a time.

In other words, I don't worry about contaminating my dirty bag. When I set up the gravity lines I make a point of moving the clean bag off to the side so any external drips don't fall onto it. Clean and dirty gear have separate zip bags for storage to avoid contamination in the pack.

So I make a little bit of effort to avoid dirty water contact, but don't worry about it beyond that. I'm sure a few drops have gotten into me over the years. Totally agree about being more careful when you see people poop laying about, but I always assume there is a dead moose just up stream anyway so follow my usual precautions.

12:44 p.m. on April 11, 2017 (EDT)
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I fill my platy bag directly then wipe it down with a bandana. The filter takes care of the rest. So I don't think I am much help with the different system. However, in low flow streams and seeps, I use a very light plastic container that houses my stove as a scoop to transfer water to the platy bag.

8:31 p.m. on April 11, 2017 (EDT)
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I use the 64 ounce Sawyer squeeze bags. Either dip them or hold them under falling water. Then wipe them down with Clorox wipes and wash my hands.

10:56 a.m. on April 12, 2017 (EDT)
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I do the same as LoneStranger for the most part except I don't use a gravity method (usually sawyer squeeze).

I must admit that I've grown pretty lax over the years. I probably should not admit this publicly but there are a number of trusted spring sources in the areas I frequent; I don't treat them at all and haven't for years. (in fact there are several spots here in the Southern Apps that local people drive to with jugs to fill up and take home)

But in new areas or if there is any doubt whatsoever, I do filter.

2:01 p.m. on April 12, 2017 (EDT)
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Patrick, local knowledge is a plus!  But you can probably find water quality surveys of these sources that verify the water quality for your peace of mind. 

As for taking wild water home: that is probably not a good idea.  One aspect of water quality is related to organism population count in the water.  Storing wild water allows that count to increase, possibly to the point it is no longer fit for consumption.  As a kid I once did this and got dysentery from 3 day old water I took home, that had been drawn from a source that had given no prior ill affects when consumed within 24 hours of drawing.  With that in mind I now pour out yesterday's water and start afresh each day when in the backcountry.

Ed  

9:41 p.m. on April 12, 2017 (EDT)
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whomeworry said:

Patrick, local knowledge is a plus!  But you can probably find water quality surveys of these sources that verify the water quality for your peace of mind. 

As for taking wild water home: that is probably not a good idea.  One aspect of water quality is related to organism population count in the water.  Storing wild water allows that count to increase, possibly to the point it is no longer fit for consumption.  As a kid I once did this and got dysentery from 3 day old water I took home, that had been drawn from a source that had given no prior ill affects when consumed within 24 hours of drawing.  With that in mind I now pour out yesterday's water and start afresh each day when in the backcountry.

Ed  

 ??? Would that include artesian water also. I've drank out of many steams in my time with no ill effects (thank God) but now that I have the sawyer I pretty much filter everything and I have take water home put it in fridge. I do tend to trust the mountain water sources more. the local sources here in the flat lands while ok when I was young and it was rural has now changed dramatically in the last 20yrs, so no not now too many people to try without filtering.

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