The 10 Essentials for Backcountry Travel

12:38 p.m. on April 16, 2008 (EDT)
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This thread is for comments on the article "The 10 Essentials for Backcountry Travel"

Certain outdoor gear is essential whether you’re heading off on an extended backcountry bushwhack or exploring the trails in your local woods.

Full article at https://www.trailspace.com/articles/ten-essentials.html

2:28 p.m. on April 17, 2008 (EDT)
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I think the article and the list it contains is defective because it does not relate the "essentials" to needs. Is the article directed to "essential to survival" or "essential to enjoyable backpacking experience" or something else?

If the "ten essentials" list is intended to address survival then I think it is poorly drafted, off target and fails to inform people of the most critical survival essentials.

For example, when one is truely lost, navigational aids are useless. If you can determine your location with your navigational aids then you are not lost. You might be off your intended course but you are not lost. But when you can't determine where you are from those navigational aids, then those navigational aids cannot tell you where you should go. At that point, survival experts will tell you it is time to admit your are lost and start planning for your rescue.

So although navigational aids are essential for not getting into a survival situation in the first place, navigational aids are not essentiial to surviving if you do become lost.

In fact, the last thing an SAR team wants is the subject wandering around aimlessly while they are trying to find the subject.

I believe that every essentials list should start with the most important item for survival - the information you leave with a responsible person about your plans and expected return time. That essential can't be bought in a store. In fact, you leave it at home rather than carry it with you. But any list that doesn't have that item as the number one essential for survival is not a list of essentials for survival.

If the list is aimed at enjoyment rather than survival essentials, then there are things on the list that are not necessary. For example, I often hike in the high peaks wilderness area of the Adirondacks. In that area, campfires are prohibited except for emergency situations. So I only need a fire starter in an emergency situation. I don't and can't use a fire starter for enjoyment.

That's why I think the list needs to be refocused on whatever needs it was intended to addressed. if it is a list of survival essentials then it should relate items to survival needs. If it is a list for enjoying oneself in the backcountry, then it should address things that add to one's enjoyment.

As it stands now, it seems to be an incomplete list aimed at both survival and enjoyment. as I already mentioned. it is missng the first essential item for survival. As to enjoyment, it is missing toilet paper.

3:42 p.m. on April 17, 2008 (EDT)
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If you define "truly lost" as having absolutely no idea where you are or how you got there, you might be right. That rarely, if ever, happens; if it does, you might as well just sit down and comntemplate your navel.

However, if you had proper navigational aids, you might not be "truly lost" in the first place. If you did manage to get less than "truly lost", but knew there was a road 20 miles due north, a compass might be pretty useful for walking a straight line on an overcast day.

Does that make it "essential" to have navigational aids? I don't know, but I know I never walk far without a compass and a map, and I've only been a mite bewildered a few times.

However, I agree that a list of "10 essentials" is of dubious utility, since it appears to be largely a matter of commons sense that one who is planning an overnight trip into the backcounntry will take a tent, and clothes, and food, and water, and a knife, etc. Thus, the people who are the most likely to read such a list are the people who least need to read it.

8:09 p.m. on April 17, 2008 (EDT)
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nogods said

Quote:

I think the article and the list it contains is defective because it does not relate the "essentials" to needs. Is the article directed to "essential to survival" or "essential to enjoyable backpacking experience" or something else?

I will have to say that I am baffled by this response and the rest of the post. Are you playing a game of semantics (as it appears), or do you just not understand the basic concept of being safe in the outdoors? What's your point?

If you are playing semantics, then you do not really need anything in the way of gear when you head into the hills and woods. Furthermore, each person's idea of being comfortable and enjoying the woods and hills is different. That is, nothing is truly "essential" to heading out.

I would suggest you read the section of MFOTH where the Ten Essentials idea is discussed (in case you are so new to the outdoors that you don't know, MFOTH is the most complete compilation of outdoor knowledge in a single, relatively small - compared to all there is to know about the outdoors - volume. It means "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills", published by the Seattle Mountaineers, and is currently in its seventh edition).

One thing you completely misunderstand/misread about the Ten Essentials is that this is a list of things you should take with you. Your itinerary for your emergency contact is something you leave and is a part of the "before the trip" preparation - you better not have it with you. If you are going to play that semantic game, then there are a whole lot of things that come far ahead of even having an itinerary to leave with someone.

Comment to rexim - Unfortunately, "common sense" is not so common, and too often what passes for "common sense" does not make sense at all. I think what you really mean is that the Ten Essentials are intuitively obvious to someone who has the experience and has developed the judgment, preferably under the guidance of an experienced mentor. The Ten Essentials are a reasonable basic guideline to someone who has little experience in thinking about and preparing for the "reasonably unexpected". On the other hand, I often do not take a tent for an overnight backpack ("shelter" does not equal "tent")

9:25 p.m. on April 17, 2008 (EDT)
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Bill, you apparently don't get the point. The "ten essentials" is a bogus list. It does not offer a good guide to either a new or experienced backpacker. Calling something "essential" without relating it to a need or function is a meaningless abstraction. As I pointed out, the list in the article is incomplete no matter how you try to characterize it. A list like that is not educational. All it does is makes a nice chart to help sales at an outdoor store.

I expect those who claim to have some expertise in a subject area to act responsibly when disseminating information. Not listing the first survival essential in a list of suggested “essential” gear is irresponsible.

MFOTH is just one of many resources for information on backpacking and hiking, and it is directed more toward mountaineering and technical climbing. But if it spews the “ten essentials” as a beginning point for someone venturing into the wilderness then it is woefully deficient.

To survive and unexpected stay in the wilderness you need to stay dry and warm, you need water, and you need food, in that order. Most importantly, you need to have a positive attitude and a way of getting yourself extracted from the predicament. The armed forces survival instructors all use the rule of 3’s when teaching survival:

You can survive:
3 weeks without food
3 days without water
3 hours without shelter
3 minutes without air
But not three seconds without hope.

You create that hope by knowing that someone will come looking for you and will know when to start looking because you left the necessary information with a responsible person before you set out on your adventure. That is the first essential of survival. Experts who teach survival know that. Anyone ever caught in a survival situation has learned that lesson. The second essential is a positive attitude about your ability to survive until you can self-extract or be extracted from the situation. If you think you can’t survive the night then you are probably right.

Discussion of gear takes place only after the student fully comprehends those first two essentials, for without them, the gear is useless.

BTW, my first winter climb of Mount Marcy was in February of 1974. In June of 1975 I hitched to Alaska from NY, went through Anchorage, then Mt. McKinley Park for 2 weeks, then Fairbanks, and then hitched to Spokane and on to Glacier for a week, then to Colorado. At that point I cheated and flew back to NY. I lived solely out of my Kelty Serac, which I still have and occasionally use along with my Svea 123R. And I haven't stopped. This past January I climbed Wright Peak with my youngest son who is now a college student majoring in outdoor recreation. So I’ve been there and done that. The armed forces instructors are right on this. Anyone who says otherwise is irresponsible.

11:34 p.m. on April 17, 2008 (EDT)
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Sorry, nogods, I do understand the point you appear to be trying to make. What baffles me is that you so completely misunderstand what the intent of the Ten Essentials list is. It is not a gear checklist (and certainly does not pretend to be anything like a complete gear checklist), and it is not about surviving a total disaster. It is only one part of the entire process of heading into the outdoors (and a part which you misinterpret). It is not something to be taken out of context and in isolation.

Further, you miss the most important part of dealing with not only the wilderness, but any other situation - prevention is the best remedy.

But then, gee, I guess by your standards, I have no experience, never having had to "survive" or been "rescued". I've only spent a few dozen periods of a week or so sitting through blizzards in my tent or snow cave over the years, with winds only up to the 50 to 70 knot range, at altitudes of 14-17 thousand feet in Alaska and Antarctica, and only spent 20 years of my life living in the desert, with just a few week-long backpacks with no food or water other than what we could scavenge from the desert plants and animals and the occasional spring or catch from a thunderstorm (crossing Death Valley in summer was kind of fun), plus just a few treks in Central American jungles. We never felt we were surviving, just living as one is intended to live. And I guess I don't know what it is like to be "truly lost", since the only time I was lost in my life was at age 5, when I took off to explore Tegucigalpa on my own (I didn't feel I was lost, since I found my way to the central Plaza, which is where I was headed).

So how is a winter hike up Marcy "surviving"? That was kind of a traditional winter trek when we were living in New England, along with the traditional winter hikes in the Presidentials and Greens. And how is hitching from NY to Alaska and spending time in McKinley Park "surviving"?

By the way, that's my last word on this thread. Why bother with any more comment?

12:32 a.m. on April 18, 2008 (EDT)
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Ahem... I believe the 10 Essentials are a guideline only? Nothing replaces experience, but it is good for a novice (like me) to learn something without having to do it the hard way. My ten essentials list may be different than someone else's, and it will change depending on whether I'm ice climbing or going for a hike in the dunes. My list is constantly evolving, too.

And while a human may survive three weeks without food, it is often difficult to think one's way out of a sticky situation if you're low on certain vital nutrients. A positive attitude comes with knowing you are well-equipped to face the worst in whatever your adventure might be. Thanks to various 10 Essentials lists I have found in the past year, I've enjoyed pushing my limits and seeing what a carefully-planned kit can do to keep me safe and yes, enjoying the outdoors.

12:36 a.m. on April 18, 2008 (EDT)
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Sorry, OGBO, was preparing my comments before you posted your latest reply...

7:08 a.m. on April 18, 2008 (EDT)
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I prefer the updated 10 essentials “systems” list precisely because it is not a list of stuff to carry (i.e. thinking if you have a map, compass, matches, etc… that automatically means you’re prepared and ready to go), but rather of concepts (like Navigation and Shelter) essential to safe and prepared backcountry travel.

The list is not a comprehensive gear list or a survival list (nor does it pretend to be), but a starting point for being prepared. The concepts imply that you evaluate what to bring (or not bring) based on an understanding of the importance of each, as well as the specifics of your trip.

For example, Navigation means setting your path based on your knowledge of where you are and where you’re going, for which a map and compass are invaluable tools. Blindly wandering through the woods while carrying a map or compass is not navigating; it’s being lost (and making the situation worse).

So, obviously knowledge and experience are most important, but the appropriate gear can be essential for putting that knowledge to work. I’d rather know how to navigate and have a map and compass with me, than simply know how to navigate but forget the map and compass at home, potentially creating a survival situation.

Shelter means different things to different people for different trips. It does not have to mean carrying a standard store-bought shelter (such as an emergency bivy or tarp), but rather of having a thorough understanding of the importance of shelter and being able to and knowing how to make the appropriate shelter should you ever need to in the conditions you’re venturing into.

As has been said already, the list is a starting point and open to interpretation depending on an infinite number of variables, but that doesn’t make it defective. It makes it adaptable for the individual.

By the way, we acknowledged the importance of leaving your info with someone under the #11 Common Sense section. Perhaps we need a Basic Survival 101 article as well, but that wouldn’t replace this list.

Also, specific gear lists are something I’ve shied away from publishing, thus far, because their variables are so many.

7:49 a.m. on April 18, 2008 (EDT)
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Alicia,

As a survival instructor, I can tell you that "Basic Survival 101" IS the updated list plus #11.

An actual basic survival class might consist of:
The Rule Of Threes -
Generally, the human body can survive for:
3 minutes w/o oxygen
3 hours w/o shelter (of any kind)
3 days w/o/ water
3 weeks (or more)w/o food

S.T.O.P. -
Sit
Think
Observe
Plan

and of course, "The list" + #11

There really isn't that much more to be said except: Learn how to use the items on the list. Spend a "Survival Night" in your own back yard before heading out. Don't just go to you local outfitter and get the items, throw them in a pack and think you're prepared. Practice doesn't make perfect, it keeps you alive until you are rescued.

7:59 a.m. on April 18, 2008 (EDT)
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Thanks a lot, f_klock. That's good to know.

6:48 p.m. on February 25, 2016 (EST)
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I do not fully agree with the list content and some individual items.

While "sun protection" and "insulation" do not cover all possible weather conditions they can be joined together into "weather protection" and should also include rain gear and proper footwear.

While "nutrition" is no doubt important, it does not cover essential food and cooking system which is a must for multi day trips.

While "repair kit and tools" is generally useful but emphasis should be made on selecting a proper tool kit for a specific kind of a trip or expected tasks and chores. For example, in some trips it may be enough to bring just a folding knife, but in others one may need a saw, or a hatchet, a shovel, etc.

While "emergency shelter" is important but I think it's just shelter for any multi day trip even without emergency considerations.

A sleeping system is completely missed out and a good night sleep is absolutely essential for general trip safety and from common sense point of view in general.

7:40 p.m. on February 25, 2016 (EST)
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I am against dogma but not dogs. There are lots of different right answers.

The point is that people need to think ahead and plan for possible things that might happen.  Really skilled people do not need much more than a knife, but that is an exception.  I am a minimalist so I have probably never carried all of the 10 essentials more than a few times.

A guy like Matt Graham can make his own bedding, shelter, fire, and tools for hunting.  He can also figure out navigation, and plenty of other things. Early man and Native Americans never had any of the modern "10 essentials."

For a half day hike in good weather I usually bring my dog, a pocket knife and some water.

7:58 p.m. on February 25, 2016 (EST)
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Wow, with all the disagreement on this thread you'd think we were talking about coffee or guns ;)

The essential ten, to me is kind of a mental exercise in pre-trip risk assessment.  Of course it won't be the end all for ALL emergencies.  If it were we'd only ever have ten things in our pack.

2:30 a.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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Ppine you dug this up?  lol I tend to think the 10 essentails should be updated.. here in the United states how often would you need them with most trails marked?

6:44 a.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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What?! No Duck Dynasty swag?  What kind of ten n'sentials list is that?!

Ed

 

8:01 a.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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I would love to read "Ed's List of 10 Essentials"!

The 10 Essentials list has evolved over the decades from specific gear (map and compass) to concept/function (navigation). I personally think this is a good thing as it forces the individual to consider what gear they need for their own outing, versus simply checking items off a list. 

It puts the onus on you to decide:

  • First, can you respond positively to an accident or emergency?
  • Second, can you safely spend a night—or more—out?

And, of course, items will change for that same individual depending on many factors.

This article from The Mountaineers (aimed at climbers) is worth a read "How To: Packing The Ten Essentials."

10:36 a.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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As a moderately experienced backpacker and backcountry traveler, I use the "10 Essentials" as a guideline. I'll often add or subtract a few items as needed. I've *ahem* amended this list to include a packet of starbucks VIA and an airline bottle of whiskey for recent trips. On my last 1,000 mile hike, these were "essential." My compass kept me found, and my matches built me a small fire to dry my socks, but a liter of Irish Coffee in a titanium pot were significant comforts. I'll often use the "10 Essentials" as a fail-safe list for helping less-experienced friends pack for day-hikes.

10:41 a.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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The Mountaineers are an interesting organization. I lived in Seattle back in the 1970s and showed up for one their summer day hikes. Since I was wearing blue jeans on a warm summer day, they told me I was not allowed to go with them. That is what I mean by dogma.

1:02 p.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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I like what Alicia said, love to see what Ed would come up with....:) Also like the narrative about Navigation,,,

Seth's in the house...What No Beer? You write about crafty goodness and it doesn't make the Cut....SMH....

But seriously on smaller hikes i take a few things depending upon the length and how its marked or of it isn't....

1:34 p.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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Denis,

There a million places to hike in the US with no trails at all.

2:01 p.m. on February 26, 2016 (EST)
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Pppine thought about BLM land after I put that down like it 2:30 am..Should have had some coffee before I posted...:)

1:39 p.m. on February 27, 2016 (EST)
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Rumor has it that not all trails are maintained well, are sometimes obscure, and occasionally can be difficult to follow.  What a silly thought!

8:28 p.m. on February 27, 2016 (EST)
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Here in Norway we have for several years had the Norwegian mountain code, or Fjellvettreglene as we call them. They came after an easter with a lot of casualities I think it was in 68. Now they have rewritten the rules, the new rules were announced just a month ago. I have looked for a translation, but I did not find it. So instead of linking to the old mountain code, here are the new rules in my translation.

1: Plan the tour and report where you are going.

2: Adapt the tour according to ability and conditions.

3: Listen to the weather forecast and also the avalance warnings.

4: Be prepared for bad weather and cold even on short trips.

5: Bring with you necessary equipment to help yourself and others.

6: Take safe route in the terrain. Know how to see avalance dangerous terrain and unsafe ice.

7: Use map and compass. Always know where you are.

8: Turn back in time. There is no disgrace in turning back.

9: Save your energy and find shelter if necessary.

The rules are of course colored by the fact that we are going much on skis in the mountains. Each point has a number of underpoints explaining details.

 

I have written the DNT (the norwegian trekking assosiation) for an official english translation. When this appears I will bring it on to you.

7:46 a.m. on February 28, 2016 (EST)
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Thanks for posting that Otto. #8 is the one I really think folks need to focus on more. Being achievers we all want to accomplish our goals and it is easy to lose sight of the lines that shouldn't be crossed.

10:29 a.m. on February 28, 2016 (EST)
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Thanks for sharing the Norwegian mountain code, Otto.

There is lots of good advice in there!

8:37 p.m. on February 28, 2016 (EST)
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There is alot of disagreement in this post. I think everyone is going to have a different opinion based upon their experiences and what they have been taught ect. This is a topic where your gonna have alot of opinions. I got my way of doing things and I'm satisfied with them. Just keep your head on and think as soon as you know your SOL.

6:46 a.m. on April 21, 2016 (EDT)
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Otto: I learned the guide lines you shared herein early in my experiences, and was informed back then they hark from Nordic wisdom.  Good advice.  I've forced Rule 9 when with folks who seemed bent on overextending both physical limits as well as safety envelopes.  And I have forced two trips to a premature end under Rule 8.  Did not make any friends, but no one accused me of being overly cautious.  At the end of one of these trips a member of the party remarked I am glad we are not up there now, while observing from a downtown Bishop diner as stacks of lenticular clouds devoured the eastern Sierra.  They got over their disappointment quickly. 

-------------------------------

Ten n'sentials

Gotta have fire: therefore five of my ten n'sensuals be Bic lighters.  Ok, I'll call the collection one item, if that suits y'all.

Space blankie: keeps yer modesty private en route to/from the hot spring, and makes for a pretty fast glissade toboggan, and is great as an outer linner to the improvised dry ice cooler used to keep your steaks cold.  But most 'mpotently you can wrap the pizza bought back in town to keep it warm on the hike in.

Victorinox pocket knife: I'd lose my cork screw if it wasn't attached to my pocket knife. 'Nuff said.

Big ol' rain/sun fly: truly multi-purpose.  Porta sweat lodge, canoe skin, rain collector, sun deflector, heat reflector, pack cover...  But don't take the one cover'n the porch back home, yer mammy ain't approvin' that!

Whiskey: medicinal purposes, you know.  Make sure you bring the best - after all this is your health we are talking about!  In fact it is the only other item in my first aide kit besides Moleskin and duct tape.

Swiss Chocolate: Tell you what! A lil nibble of chocolate followed by a sippie of fine scotch or bourbon provides such pleasure overload it is downright narcotic in its affect.  If one is about to die, this is the way to go.  Junior, this combo might get you through an Artic winter sitting on the N Pole in nothin' more than yer undershorts.  But don't go 'round testing my theory.

Red Flannel shirt: Otherwise I'd feel so naked sitting 'round in my undershorts.  We'all have reputatins to uphold...

Extry Undershorts:  Well dang if undershorts seem purty 'mpotent to survival in the wilderness, I've mentioned dem twice already.  And surely if yer be in a real 'mergency you'd done already soiled the ones yer wearin'.  

Duct Tape:  Better than bear spray!  I swear!  With a little practice one can wrap any object with blinding speed.  And we all know practickly nothing escapes duct tape!  Come to think of it, why don't they call it bear tape?  A whole new marketing opportunity... Alas not even duct tape will keep a daughter from astrayin'.

Whistle:  With a lil imaginuity you can tweak a whistle ta sound like a duck call.  Yezzery, Bob!  An you don't need  be wearin' cammi ta use it.  You can blow your mind out 'temptin' ta signal fer help.  And then you starve your butt ta' death.  But you can live off a duck call, coaxing yer survival dinner in up close.  I don't suggest going for anything more ambitious, though, somptin tells me it takes more than'a smack on the head to dispatch an elk or moose, and thars no room left on my list fer a gun.  An' if there were, I'd take my Hank Williams Sr collection before I bring me piece.  An' if you bring a record player, we'll have a gas while wait'n ta see if the Calvary finds us before fate.

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

9:26 a.m. on April 21, 2016 (EDT)
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I have got to disagree with the 3 hours without shealter. I know it can be done,so I don't really get that one unless it's winter,or cold rain,then I get it.

5:50 p.m. on April 21, 2016 (EDT)
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The ten essentials are a guide, and good one. Most of all, besides the actual items, looking at the list causes us to use our heads. "Will I wake tomorrow because I had these?" Fundamentally, I modify these things and add to them based upon the season, the locale, and the activity. It would be foolish for me to paddle a river without a spare paddle. It would be foolish to take a bc ski trip without a spare tip. In the desert, without water, one might not survive the day. As far as a compass or other navigational aids not being useful if you are really, truly lost, I am baffled, to use Bill's words. Unless you were blindfolded and placed in a treeless, waterless, featureless expanse, you should have some degree of knowledge of your general location. Do you not know what time of the year it is, can you not see the sun, the stars? With a degree of common sense, you should know enough of your general location that a compass can get you out.  I have, as Daniel Boone supposedly said, "never been lost, but I've been mighty confused a few times." I have skied down the wrong drainage. While descending a peak in a thunderstorm(very quickly, I might add) we starting following the wrong ridge line and had to retrace our steps when the peak fell away below us. "This is definitely not the way we came up." The ten essentials include the knowledge of what to do in these situations. I often have to navigate on northern rivers for hundreds of miles and for which maps can be notoriously inaccurate. On the Dease River of BC, Stone Island Rapid is marked as being a number of meters past a tight bend and constriction, which is clearly shown on current maps as having an island in the middle...well a dot. As we approached, I speculated, knowing enough about rivers and geology, that the logically, the rapid would be at the bend, rather than below it. Fortunately we were ready when we round the corner. I will add that the earlier editions of the FOTH, 2nd and 3rd that I have, included a signaling device such as a mirror. A whistle might be useful in certain situations, but aerial searches won't hear a whistle. Make sure the whistle is a pea less one.

4:52 a.m. on April 22, 2016 (EDT)
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Erich said:

...Make sure the whistle is a pea less one.

 Por que?

Ed

9:58 a.m. on April 22, 2016 (EDT)
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Hi Ed,

Whistles that operate by using the pea, do not work well when wet. In the last 15 or twenty years, pea less whistles have emerged that are louder and can work when wet. Imagine fording a river and being swept off you feet and ending up stuck on a rock. Your pea type whistle will not function to alert rescuers. :-(

6:35 p.m. on April 22, 2016 (EDT)
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Erich said:

Whistles that operate by using the pea, do not work well when wet...

Then what about that pea whistle Rose Dawson (Kate Winslet) used to summon rescuers in the Titanic movie?   Are you telling me they fabricated that scene?  Next I suppose you're going to tell me Superman, Batman and Donald Trump are all fictional characters, that we're going to have to save ourselves...  

Thanks Erich.  Time to update my whistle!

Ed

11:12 a.m. on April 23, 2016 (EDT)
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Ed, having worked in the film industry for many years, all sound is looped. You don't think they had a full orchestra playing while doing their scenes? I'm sure that after Winslet blew her whistle, they looped in a pea less whistle! And, yes, all fictional characters, with one a creation by himself!

8:29 p.m. on April 28, 2016 (EDT)
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Alicia I posted this to social media 4 times so far it's descriptions are that good ..Just wish you had a print option so I don't have to write it down for a coworker who want to start hiking....:)

1:44 a.m. on May 4, 2016 (EDT)
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I think everyone is gonna have a different opinion based on location,time of year, and other variables. Also your training and your outdoors experience is also gonna make a difference. I'd assume most here can make traps for animals and shelters and have basic bushcraft skills. It's kind of a question that has no right or wrong answer.

The issue I think of is if you are separated from your gear and only got what's in your pockets and on your belt,now we have a interesting situation. 

10:56 a.m. on May 21, 2017 (EDT)
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I agree with having stuff in your pockets.  So much so that as the years roll past I begin to look more and more like an old fart, even around town but especially on the trail.  Some of the items on the list are to big to put in my pockets but what can fit, tools, whistle, compass, fire, etcetera I pack in.  Thankfully there are cargo pockets on my trail pants.

4:03 p.m. on May 21, 2017 (EDT)
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ppine said:

The Mountaineers are an interesting organization. I lived in Seattle back in the 1970s and showed up for one their summer day hikes. Since I was wearing blue jeans on a warm summer day, they told me I was not allowed to go with them. That is what I mean by dogma.

 Not more than 20 miles from where I'm sitting in my house right now three boyscouts started a climb of one of our mountains. There were wearing blue jeans and it was a warm day with zero chance of precip forecast. They never made it to the top though. When they reached a saddle at 7000' a storm hit them and now they are dead. It is a common story anymore.

I'm not surprised that a group of experienced folks like The Mountaineers will refuse to let ill prepared or under prepared folks go along with them. 

I have seen my share of un-forecast storms in the backcountry. Who hasn't? During one of them it was totally impossible to even start a fire. It was gale force winds and blizzard conditions in a remote area of the Mojave Desert. That is why the Mountaineers and other experienced backcountry travelers say that one must be able to star warm and dry without a fire. The 10 Essentials Systems have some strong reasons. So does clothing selection. But one person's list might not cover every location completely so you do have to keep an open mind. 

August 23, 2019
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