The latest trend in sleeping bags

12:43 p.m. on October 5, 2014 (EDT)
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What do you all think of this latest trend in sleeping bags?  Do you consider it to be an advancement?  or change for the sake of change?  I've seen a few zipperless ones, one that has arm-holes, and hoods that contour the head.

I suppose if they are lighter, more comfortable, and at least as warm as traditional mummies, they're an advancement.  What do you think?

http://indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com/your-next-sleeping-bag-might-not-have-a-zipper-or-a-b-1641760463

3:43 p.m. on October 5, 2014 (EDT)
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I've been using a quilt exclusively for the last few years. Easy to adjust to a wide range of external and internal temperatures by varying how much of the body is covered.

Traditional mummy bags will keep you snuggy warm, no doubt. These more open designs are great for folks who like to roll around a lot while sleeping.

10:01 a.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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A lot of the new configurations of bags seem like gimmicks. For people that like to make breakfast on a stove from the comfort of a sleeping bag, maybe armholes are a good idea. I have never camped with anyone that does that.

The new treated down could be a game changer. I hope that synthetic materials continue to be developed which can take compression in a stuff bag and fluff back up to complete loft with repeated uses. That is the type of thing that will change sleeping bags, not what they look like.

I like the new mummy bags with a little looser fit.

 

 

1:38 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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I am intrigued by quilts.  As I sleep now I continually manager to wind up turned upside down in my bag and I continually manage to slide off my pad.  A quilt may solve this, it would certainly be no worse.

For winter use I am thinking about a synthetic over quilt rather than a full blown over bag.  I'd use the quilt over my down bag and hope for the best in terms of warmth.  Then perhaps try just the over quilt for summer use.  If I like the quilt I'd go all in for a summer weight down quilt.

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/prodigy-1/

1:52 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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Great question to start a topic Bill. I've been thinking about this for a couple months now and think that I may give in and try a new bag or quilt. Lots of new styles and options.

I've never been a big fan of the traditional mummy. I'm a bit like LoneStranger in that I roll a lot. I'm a pretty warm sleeper too, so the traditional mummy isn't great for me. I'm often too warm, causing me to unzip or try to escape mid-night.

Looking forward to doing some research this winter and find a new bag/quilt next spring. 

3:07 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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Maybe some quilt users can help me out. I love quilts at home and like them loose and light in weight. My feet often stick out but the house is rarely below 55-58. Outdoors in the mountains, I am interested in retaining as much body heat as possible and have always liked mummies. I roll around and take them with me.

The original sleeping bag was made with wool blankets held together with over-sized safety pins. I use a canvas bedroll when truck or horse camping in cold weather use the canvas to hold the blankets in place over my down bag.

Now we seem to be in this de-evolutionary phase of sleeping and back to quilts. Please explain how a quilt can be used in cold weather. How do you keep it tucked in or at least on your person if you roll around a lot? It has always been a mystery.

 

3:51 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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I've been wondering about the same thing ppine asked.  The idea of a quilt is enticing as it must be lighter than a full sleeping bag.  But it seems hard to believe it would be as warm, as cold air could get in around the edges & the end.  How do you keep it sealed up?

4:53 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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Sleeping bags that look more like upper and lower garments have been around for 35+ years. In 1980 I met a climber who had a pair of down pants and a down jacket with a hood that would zipper together at the waist of each and the legs of the pants inseam would unzip and then be zipped together for a lower body "sleeping" bag. The arms and hood made it very comfortable looking.

And recently while researching a new sleeping bag found one that would make one look like that character that Hans Solo owed money to in the original first Star Wars, oh Jabba the Hut! It had the bottom like a regular sleeping bag but with arm sleeves and a hood and the foot could be opened up to be able to walk around in it.

5:17 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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My quilt is an out of production Thermarest Ventra which has several features to address the keeping it in place issue.

First the footbox is well designed to wrap around the end of my sleep pad which keeps the bottom end of the quilt in place no matter how much I roll around. This seems to work just as well with a Neo Air Xlite as it did with a Trail Pro.

Second there are a series of snaps which match up to the Thermarest fitted sheet. I never use these but they would directly attach the quilt to the pad along the edges. I think I would be too hot if I sealed myself in like that though.

Finally this particular quilt was designed with great side curtains. These are short, maybe three inch, walls that hang down from the quilt down the long edges. These things are the key to being able to lift up enough to roll over without venting all of your stored heat.

Being open is actually a feature more than an issue. It lets you easily stick and arm or leg out to radiate a little excess heat.

8:44 p.m. on October 6, 2014 (EDT)
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Golite makes sleeping bags that are only a top with no zipper at all and have a separate pad that becomes the bottom.  Not sure how the two are mated so they stay together.

In summer in Wyoming  (and winter here in Tucsons backcountry) I use my 20 degree Coleman bag fully unzipped as a quilt putting just my feet into it or not depending on I am in my tent or not.

7:40 p.m. on October 7, 2014 (EDT)
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The quilt vs. mummy-bag is not something easily generalized...it is really a matter of personal needs and wants.

If I were ONLY a thru-hiker who did not change my gear during the trip...I would most likely choose a mummy-bag. If I were buying my first piece of sleeping-insulation and planned to sleep outdoors in colder temps...I would choose a mummy-bag. If I could sleep comfortably in the mummy-position...I would possibly choose a mummy-bag (though the need for vertical insulation makes this less likely a possibility). As it turns out...I rarely sleep outdoors more than 10 consecutive days...I have several pieces of sleeping-insulation to choose from...and I cannot sleep in the mummy-position for more than 10 minutes. For me then...quilts have a lot of appeal.

In the summer (>60 degrees at night) I sleep ON a 200wt fleece sleeping-bag/bag-liner and zip it up or wrap it around me as needed (keeping the fleece between my skin and sleeping mat is what is key). I paid approx. $10.00 for the fleece bag...and it is easily the best $10.00 I have ever spent on a single piece of camping gear (the physical properties of fleece make it ideal for hot and humid weather...easy cleaning...staying clean).

As the weather gets colder (<60 degrees at night) I trade the fleece out for a down quilt and add some thermal base-layers (hooded) + wool gloves + thick socks. In the coldest weather I endure (>20-15 degrees at night)...I add a puffy mid-layer (hooded) to the thermal base-layer + quilt + socks + gloves.

Sleeping in layers might seem uncomfortable...but unless you sleep in the nude (no you may not borrow my sleeping-bag!) it is little different than sleeping in a mummy-bag...except layers allow arms and legs to move more freely (just think of it as a two-piece sleeping-bag you can walk and stand in). Drafts are not really a problem...because when drafts do occur (say when I am tossing and turning) they only rob the heat trapped between the layers and the quilt...the warm air trapped against my skin is unaffected...even when I use the bathroom at night!

Freedom of movement and comfort are obviously two of the greatest advantages of quilts and layers over a mummy-bag...but I would argue that the quilt and layers approach is also cheaper (layers are necessary for vertical tasks in cold conditions anyways...there is no need for bags with different temp-ratings as system is cumulative) + lighter (less purely horizontal insulation necessary = less overall insulation) + more versatile (vertical insulation does double-duty as horizontal insulation...more insulation is being used more often).

2:27 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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Joseph,

I've read your ideas on this topic enough to want to try it. I'm going to experiment with sleeping in more layers, less bag. I may or may not be able to tolerate it but your system has a lot going for it and is worth a try. Just FYI....

3:26 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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A lot of the "new" trends have actually been around for longer than even I have been in the outdoors. When I started camping (with my family), we used "bedrolls", which were basically a blanket or quilt that was rolled up for carrying (look at the pictures of Civil War soldiers with their blanket rolls tie diagonally across the upper body). Even in the 1920s, down comforters were used, along with kapok filled comforters, rectangular bags, and mummy bags. A lot of the styles in bag shapes are re-works of the past.

The significant big changes are in the quality of down, the recent treated down, and the technology of synthetics. The cotton-filled, and kapok-filled comforters and bags of various shapes are thankfully gone. Kapok does have the property of being pretty waterproof, though heavy, plus being very flammable. The synthetic shells are a big improvement over the cotton outers for sleeping bags (the idea of cotton shells was that the cotton would wick the water away to the outside of your bag to evaporate, hence providing some cooling).

People speak of hammocks as "new". When I was very young (3 to 5 years old) and we were living in Central America, hammocks were the standard bed. I have posted here on Trailspace sometime back about my experience sleeping in a hammock in the San Jacinto mountains which had an underneath comforter as well as the top comforter and a mesh"tent" with a waterproof "roof". That was the time I made the mistake of (unknowingly) hanging the hammock between two trees across a deer game path. I got bumped from underneath during the night. When I peered out of the mesh, I discovered that a deer (6-point buck) had just gone under me. At lest he had lowered his head, so no antler wounds.


The idea of sleeping in your clothing is also old. Bivouacing has been discussed here on Trailspace many times. Traditionally mountaineers would (and still do) have a down parka with hood plus an "elephant's foot" (a half-length zipless sleeping bag), with a cagoule (waterproof "monk's shell for the top). I still have my Cairn rucksack that has a waterproof foldout liner that you can put your feet in (the liner comes up to your waist to make a closed system with the cagoule). I also still have a par of down pants that are full zip up the inseam to make an elephant's foot, plus 2 of my bivy sacks have arm holes that are usually zipped closed, but open to allow cooking while staying in the waterproof sack (a cagoule, of course, already has full arms to allow cooking while at a bivy).

Another improvement is the sleeping pad - Kapok and cotton filled "mattresses" were around for a long time, though bags stuffed with pine needles, grass, and straw were used for military camping for a century or two. Air mattresses when I started backpacking were readily subject to puncture, a reputation they still have, even though several of the newer materials are harder to puncture, and closed cell foam does allow more compact packing (my oldest Thermarest, a first generation one) is still usable after 50 years). Open cell foam pads were around for many years, since you could compress them somewhat for packing (the "sponge" characteristic made most of the open cell pads go away, though, except as the fill for Thermarest-type inflatables).

As Patman notes, sleeping in layers can work very well. If you read my review of the Montane Minimus sleeping bag, I did exactly that. The Minimus is nominally a 3-season bag, with 37°F as its recommended temperature. By using enough layers, including my Dolomiti jacket, I stayed more or less comfortable at 25°F, 12 degrees below its comfort rating. I will note, however, if you are sweaty after a hard day of hiking, you are likely to feel a bit cool using your sweaty clothes as a layer.

The different methods and styles are not new, though the materials are. It is good to re-discuss these ideas from time to time, though, since we get lots of people new to the backcountry here on Trailspace, plus a few old grey heads who have forgotten.

4:23 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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I have to believe that quilts and variants might offer good warmth and relatively low weight because they don't have the bottom.  would think quilts are good to a point, but I like the mummy bag's cocoon effect in the winter.  once I'm happy with a bag, I tend to stick with it for quite a while because most of the changes don't seem to make much of a difference for me.  freely admit I haven't tried water-resistant down, but I try to avoid getting all sleeping bags wet anyway. 

of course, you could opt for the selk sleeping bag.  has anyone tried one of these? doesn't look like a great choice if you have to relieve yourself in the middle of the night.....
selk.gif

4:31 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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Thanks Pat…I consider you a very serious camper with all the nights you stay out annually (and are kind enough to share with us)…so the fact that you think the practice has merit means a lot. The practice has evolved into a very elaborate thing over the last few years…but below I listed three of the more important things to keep in mind.

First…I think acceptance of the practice comes down to how comfortable you are sleeping in a mummy-bag (though as I listed above there are other benefits as well). I did not actually know how much of a problem I had with mummy-bags until I slept in an insulated hammock for the first time…as I saw sleeping outdoors as generally (though occasionally the opposite is true) more uncomfortable as sleeping indoors (particularly in cold weather)…and nocturnal bag-wrestling as an inevitable part of sleeping outdoors. However…after sleeping in an insulated hammock…I realized a positive relationship between the degree to which my arms and legs were free to move…and how good a night of sleep I obtained…so I began experimenting with a hammock top-quilt on the ground (I like my quilt to be long enough to pull up around my neck...and wide enough to turn on my side without the quilt letting drafts in).

Second…the fit and construction of the layers could be important considerations. I own two down jackets and the looser fitting + thinner fabric + higher quality down (800fp) of the UL down jacket (parka technically) is far more comfortable than the other which has a more tailored cut and made of a heavier fabric (I use the 2nd in town primarily). Similarly…I think both the thermal base-layer and the down jacket should have hoods…because this keeps the hood close at hand and requires barely a conscious thought to pull it over my head if I feel I need it (both hats and hoods fall off…but hoods keep the back of the neck warm and are much easier to find at night).

Lastly…feel free to mix-up the combination of insulation you use. For example…I might start out the night with thermal bottoms + thermal top + down jacket (unzipped with no hood)…and at some point in the night put on my down pants and zip the down jacket up and put the hood on…only to later take off all the down layers altogether. As I would during the day…I use the multiple pieces of insulation at night to get at that perfect comfort spot. Most of the time your tweaking will be much less dramatic than in the example I just gave (a zipper pull here…sliding a hood off or on there)…but the example I provided should give some idea of the range of options available.

5:10 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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Like everything else it really comes to down to what works for you. I prefer to wear my Mad Bomber rather than a hood and I rarely adjust layers during the night. Sometimes I'll wake up and open my jacket a bit to bleed off a little excess heat, but that tends to be it.

One other thing not mentioned in this thread yet...Winter quilting requires a solidly insulated base no matter how good your other layers are. I find a Neo Xlite on top of a Trail Pro works great. So long as I make sure they are well inflated I hardly melt into the snow at all :)

5:16 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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On winter trips I've started sleeping wearing more clothing rather than less.  I used to just sleep in my base layers but now wear a lot more clothing.  By the time I usually go to bed my layers are typically dry enough to not cause my down bag to get wet.  One HUGE benefit to sleeping in more layers is getting out of a warm bag in the middle of the night and in the morning is a lot less agonizing.

6:55 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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LoneStranger...you're correct about winter camping needing a well insulated base...I didn't mention it because it applies to mummy-bags as well as quilts. I rarely cold-camp in night-time temps lower than 20 degrees...and for my needs my Trail Pro (like minds?) is sufficient. However...if using a non-self-inflating mattress (without a foam core) one does need a conductive barrier between the mattress and ground (bivy doesn't count)...because the mattress fabric is not sufficient to slow the loss of heat to the trapped air inside the pad that your body has worked to warm. A separate self-inflating pad is not necessary (though I bet it works really nice for you LoneStranger)...all that is needed is a lightweight piece of closed-cell foam...something like the Gossamer Gear Thinlight Insulation Pad. Again...my experience does not include temps below 20 degrees...for that kind of information one should look to others.

9:16 p.m. on October 8, 2014 (EDT)
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leadbelly2550 said:

has anyone tried one of these? doesn't look like a great choice if you have to relieve yourself in the middle of the night.....

selk.gif

 Yes, and not only did I hate it, but S'elk got very testy over my review.  https://www.trailspace.com/gear/musuc/selkbag-4g-patagon/#review29964

8:46 p.m. on October 20, 2014 (EDT)
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I have two quilts now.  A 30F from Enlightened Equipment and a 10F from ZPacks.  I don't have much confidence in the ZPacks making it that low, even though it is more a bag as it has a zipper, hoping for 20F on Fall trips was the main reason I got it, saving a little weight over my 15F WM Apache.  The materials they use make them real comfortable and they recommend sizing up one length.  Unlike my WM bags, they are a little harder to keep tucked in around the neck.  I've read where some folks only use the quilts in the three seasons, using a bag in the colder months.  My EE quilt is only 5-6 oz. lighter than my 35F WM Caribou bag, but it all adds up.

Duane

9:26 p.m. on October 20, 2014 (EDT)
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I am one of those people who sleeps in a layer system, it works well for me so I could probably use a mummy bag that was a little looser. I plan on buying one of the newer treated down bags this fall, as well as a synthetic quilt if I can find one.

When I'm in a tent I use a sleeping bag or quilt along with fleece pants, jacket, socks, and sometimes a beanie or hoodie if it's real cold.

When I'm in a hammock I just use an underquilt (when it's cold) an overquilt and pretty much the same insulating clothes as above, all depending on temps of course.

I find doing this gives me a very wide range of comfort with minimal gear, plus for me it's more comfortable to get up in the night and leave my shelter to use the bathroom or to get early morning photos with an insulation layer already on.

I get up, slip on my boots and I'm good to go.

I actually got this photo of the blood moon over Lake Moultrie after sleeping a couple hours and getting up long enough for a few photos wearing the fleece clothes I already had on:


IMG_2175.jpg 

 

Funny though, I hate wearing pajamas at home in the bed, go figure. 

Different strokes for different folks though, that's one of the things I like best about the outdoors, we all get to try different things. Some we like, some we don't but there's isn't a single right way most times, just your way.

 

10:09 p.m. on October 20, 2014 (EDT)
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I've been giving all of this quite a bit of thought, and digesting the various comments.  I have several different sleeping bags now:

-Marmot Helium:  rated 15F, but I've had mixed results with it.  It's nice and light, and seems lofty, but isn't as warm as I'd hoped.  I used it on the JMT in 2012, but toward the end I had some uncomfortably cold nights (AFAIK it never got below freezing on that trip).  I suspect a lot had to do with burning ~17lbs of body fat during the trip, not having as much food as I'd have liked, and not sleeping well (kind of a vicious circle).  Anyway I used it recently down to 25F, and was fine, but also wore Smartwool long-johns, heavy socks, hat, etc, and my body is currently "well insulated" <smirk>.  I shudder (shiver) to think what it would be like to spend the night in this bag at 15F.

- Marmot Couloir:  rated 0F.  I've had it down to the mid teens, dressed similarly to my preceding comments, and felt "just warm enough".  It was the kind of thing where I didn't feel "cold" per se, but could feel the coldness thru the bag, so I knew it was cold out... kind of like being in a house or car in cold weather, and touching the window, feeling the cold from outside, but not feeling cold inside.   It's also pretty heavy for backpacking, at (a rated) 3lb 7 oz, though I guess not outlandishly so, but it's bulky to pack compared to the Helium, especially seeing as there's only a 15F difference in the ratings.  Looking at prices of comparable (though I assume "better") bags from Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, etc, has stunned me...

- Mountain Hardwear (3rd Dimension??) from the early 2000's.  If it's the 3rd Dimension it was rated at 0F.  It is fine down to the mid 30's, and it's bulky & heavy.  It's still great for 3-season car camping, saving the wear & tear on the down bags.

I think for most backpacking I'm likely to do, the Couloir will be warm enough... though we'll see this winter, as I'm determined to finally "fill in the missing months" by backpacking in months when I never have before.   Naturally I'd rather have bag that's lighter, more compact, yet warmer.  :)

What I am thinking, though, is also trying some coastal backpacking.  For that I expect it to be damp, so would prefer either synthetic, or (preferably, to keep the weight/warmth ratio favorable) one of the newer hydrophobic down bags.  

So naturally I've been exploring these various "new" options.  I see from the comments that they're not new.  I guess for whatever reasons the manufacturers just started promoting them.

Oh, and I think if I get another bag I'll try something other than Marmot.  They seem nice, but in my own experience they don't seem to live up to their temperature ratings.

If I do get a new bag it will have to replace one of the current ones.  It's hard enough to properly store the ones I have, not to mention another one.  I wouldn't mind replacing the Helium with a 3-season bag with hydrophobic down... if I can find the right one that's as light, as compact, yet warmer.

11:12 a.m. on October 23, 2014 (EDT)
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A good discussion Bill H. thanks for bringing it up. I really enjoy hearing and learning from you guys!

Keep it coming.

7:12 p.m. on December 3, 2014 (EST)
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I think anything that makes my nights warmer and able to move a little more without slipping off my pad  is a good thing.  I get so darn cold in the middle of the night in the wintertime and I am always so uncomfortable.  I recently just sacrificed a lot of weight to have a sleeping bag that allowed my legs to be a little more free with room to have my arms under my head and still in the bag.  But like  I said, that packed on the pounds. I am thankful the lady at the store let me lay around in the store for a while to try it out!  Maybe the next time I have some money to throw around, I will look more into this, thanks for the post! 

6:54 a.m. on December 4, 2014 (EST)
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:) Great comments ya'll

10:09 a.m. on December 4, 2014 (EST)
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Okay - so have you guys had a chance to see the new bags by Sierra Designs?

I just saw them the other day on their website, I haven't tried one but the innovation is interesting.

They also have a quilt that looks promising, seen below.


650.jpg


638.jpg

This is what they call the back country bed, it has a built in quilt.

They have another bag with arm & foot 'holes' so you can do camp chores or whatever while still in the bag.

10:35 a.m. on December 4, 2014 (EST)
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Mike or anyone else, have you had the chance to read Lah and Ashleigh's great reviews of these Sierra Design bags? If not, I recommend them. They go into great detail on these bags and the recommendations are pretty high.

Ashleigh's SD Mobile Mummy 800 3-Season review is here.
Ashleigh's SD Mobile Mummy 800 2-Season review is here.
Lah's SD Backcountry Bed 800 3-Season review is here.

11:06 a.m. on December 4, 2014 (EST)
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Thanks Kiwi - I had not read these reviews yet, but I will.

I'm in the market for a new winter bag(s),  20F where I live & 0F for trips to the mountains. I love my hammock, but there are certain times I need a tent and my current bag is getting old.

5:37 p.m. on December 4, 2014 (EST)
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a couple of stray observations:

-some high-end winter bags are specifically designed to be paired with an insulated jacket while sleeping.  the feathered friends peregrine and valandre shocking blue, both of which are already very warm on their own, come to mind.  I read a review of the shocking blue once that criticized it for being too wide.  well, that's interesting, but the bag is designed to be used in combination with a down jacket or suit to handle colder conditions, so that extra width is essential to allow the jacket to loft inside the bag. 

I think the same philosophy should work with a 3 season bag - if you find one with enough width, using it in concert with a down vest or jacket could meaningfully expand its comfortable range without having to purchase a heavier or bulkier bag.   

-different brands have different design goals.  most will provide circumference for the hips and shoulders.  some bags are built to be more trim, others with a wider cut.  I don't have a strong preference, but the marmot bag I have definitely feels wider than my warmer mountain hardwear bag. 

-I'm never going to say that there is no way to innovate in terms of sleeping bags, but it's a pretty simple concept that has yielded pretty solid results for a long time.  quilt vs. bag, I understand.  bags that zip together so you can double up....are the greatest invention in the world.  otherwise, I think simple and effective is probably best. 

3:02 p.m. on December 5, 2014 (EST)
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@Mike--Ashleigh's and Lah's reviews on the BC bed are pretty good. Sierra's quilts, however, are getting mediocre ratings on various sites.


As a hammock hanger, I would like to go to a quilt, but not until prices drop. My 15F Sierra Design mummy bag works as a quilt when it's unzipped and costed me less than $150.

8:26 p.m. on December 13, 2014 (EST)
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As posted here I got an Eddie Bauer Karakoram 0 Storm Down bag. 

Karakoram down bag upgrades are:

1. Down Tek DWR treated down (as several other companies have done)

2. vertical baffles over the torso area (for "supposably" better loft)

3. extended foot area (for storing stuff that must be kept warm overnight)

4. Pertex shell W/ good DWR treatment

None of these are earthshaking items but together they make for a premium down bag.

Bauer's  3 season bag with a built-in full length insulated mattress IS a bit innovative.

I feel good down DWR is a BIG innovation and soon all top end down garments will offer this, at least as an extra-cost option.

11:27 a.m. on December 16, 2014 (EST)
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In summer conditions in the mountains I unzip a mummy bag except for the foot box and use it like a quilt. When temperatures drop to below about 45 degrees R I start to zip it up about half way. For temperatures below freezing it is zipped up all the way.

What it old is new again. Sleeping in down clothes is as old as Eddie Bauer's original down clothes invented for mountaineering.

For warm conditions, I don't use a sleeping bag at all come to think of it. For a week long trip last year I brought only a light cotton quilt and a light wool blanket.

7:58 a.m. on December 17, 2014 (EST)
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I've already seen the Sierra bags being sold..The novelty is wearing off..Mummy bag is versatile and with quilts you have have options.I am not seeing innovation with Sierra Designs..Iam seeing weight..Which every backpacker is trying to lower or maintain..

10:54 a.m. on December 22, 2014 (EST)
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Thanks to Bill for putting things in perspective.

So who has experience with the new waterproof down bags?

 

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