Sleeping Bag

10:39 a.m. on August 14, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
2 forum posts

I am looking for a new sleeping bag.  I cannot use a mummy bag - claustrophobic.  I have been looking for a good, roomy and light rectangular bag.  Tried the Nemo Mezzo Loft and LOVED it ... but it was just too cold.  I went camping in the Sawtooths and it got down to 32 degrees ... I froze.  Had to bring blankets and layer after layer.  While that would work for a car camp trip, I need something that would also work for backpacking trips (usually a day or 2 - nothing too serious).

I have looked at the "Big Agnes" Summit Park and Whiskey River bags.  Thoughts?

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated for this curious camper.  Thanks!

10:50 a.m. on August 14, 2015 (EDT)
1,967 reviewer rep
350 forum posts

Have you considered a quilt? Lighter than a bag, you can order it for any temp rating you want, you can snub it around you when it's cold and open it up for lots of room when not so cold.

1:42 p.m. on August 14, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
2 forum posts

Is there a certain "camping" quilt?  What brand?

2:47 p.m. on August 14, 2015 (EDT)
1,967 reviewer rep
350 forum posts

Enlightened Equipment, Feathered Friends, Jacks R Better, Zpacks, Hammock Gear, and Underground Quilts are all cottage shops that make down backpacking quilts. In addition, Sierra Designs, Big Agnes and Nemo are more mainstream outdoor equipment brands that have a quilt or two in their line-up.

Check out this thread for more discussion: https://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-selection/topics/166558.html

3:02 p.m. on August 14, 2015 (EDT)
73 reviewer rep
3,630 forum posts

Unzip your average mummy bag except for the foot box, then you can have the best of both worlds in a compact package.

5:32 p.m. on August 14, 2015 (EDT)
REVIEW CORPS
4,534 reviewer rep
6,025 forum posts

Feathered Friends is not a "cottage shop". They are one of the 2 top quality down gear manufacturers in the US, along with Western Mountaineering. Both make camping quilts, along with down parkas, down pants, down booties, and other down-filled gear, including camping quilts. Their standards and manufacturing quality are top notch, and their claimed temperature ratings have always proven conservative in my own and numerous other Trailspace members experience (that means that their sleeping bags and other gear are as warm as their ratings, while unfortunately most of the Big Name manufacturers tend to be a bit over-optimistic in stating how cold you can go and be comfortable). Both do a certain amount of customization, especially for length and over-fill. Both stand behind their products. They are, however, on the pricey side.

You should be aware that all down gear manufacturers in the US (especially in the West) are still catching up from the lengthy longshoremans' strike (more than 6 months) that affected all the Pacific Coast ports (especially the 5 major West Coast ports).

There is a caveat, however, for any sleeping bags or quilts - If you go to bed hungry or exhausted, you will sleep more cold than if you have a hearty meal before hitting the sack. Same goes if you have gotten thoroughly chilled or are wearing wet clothing. Sleeping bags, quilts, and any clothing will keep your body heat in. They do not generate heat on their own.

10:48 a.m. on August 25, 2015 (EDT)
REVIEW CORPS
2,750 reviewer rep
1,638 forum posts

I use a hammock primarily, and thus have shifted over to quilt. I do use my quilts on the ground as well. The best quilts I have found for amazing quality and excellent prices are from hammockgear. Hand made by an excellent guy, Adam and his wife are awesomr and have top notch customer service. If your interested in a quilt i strony suggest you check them out.

5:44 p.m. on August 25, 2015 (EDT)
BRAND REP
0 reviewer rep
368 forum posts

"Tried the Nemo Mezzo Loft and LOVED it ... but it was just too cold.  I went camping in the Sawtooths and it got down to 32 degrees ... I froze. "

What pad did you use with that sleeping bag ?

2:08 p.m. on August 26, 2015 (EDT)
202 reviewer rep
96 forum posts

You mentioned Big Agnes.  I initially considered them because of their width.  I looked at several BA bags but most of the reviews I read, said the the temp ratings are way off by at least 10 degrees. 

Like you, I am normally clausterphobic in mummy bags, so after alot of research, I decided on 2 Western Mountaineering mummy bags.

The first one I bought is the WM Bison (-40F) and in the XL size it has 68' girth at the shoulders. A perfect fit for me! BTW, I am 6'3" 250lbs.

The second bag I bought is the WM Alpinlite (20F) bag. This bag has a 65' shoulder girth, so it was a bit too narrow for me. So, after more research I discovered that WM makes a bag expander which was perfect for me, as it added about 3 more inches of width to my Alpinlite bag! The expander just zips in in about 30 seconds. So, now I have 2 mummy bags I can zip all the way up and have plenty of room to move my arms around.  I am a side sleeper, and I can roll over on my right or left side and the bag stays put.

As someone else mentioned, you can always unzip your mummy bag down to the foot box, and now you have a quilt and your feet will always stay covered. I like having gear that is versatile like that.  Some WM bags actually zip all the way down the side of the bag and then across the bottom of the footbox, so it can lay perfectly flat just like a quilt if that's what you want.

As a side note the WM bags are quite expensive, but if you read even just a few reviews, you will see everyone says (including me) they are well worth the price. In addition, almost every review I have read on WM bags consistently say the stated temp ratings by WM are conservative. Most would comfortably take you another 10 degrees below the stated temp rating. A couple of reviews on the Alpinlite had claims of getting close to 0F and still toasty warm. I'm not surprised.

I will likely never buy a bag from anyone else other that Western Mountainering. The design, materials and craftsmanship are top notch. Like sleeping in a silk-lined cloud! These bags are all made by hand in San Jose, CA. so that was another selling point to me.  

2:14 p.m. on August 26, 2015 (EDT)
1 reviewer rep
712 forum posts

ppine said:

Unzip your average mummy bag except for the foot box, then you can have the best of both worlds in a compact package.

 Quilts are lighter than bags comparatively.  They also come with pad straps to ensure that if you toss and turn the quilt stays put.  They are also hoodless, which ensures that the hood is not sitting in your face if you simply open up your average mummy bag.

So no, opening your average mummy bag is not "best of both worlds.'  Instead, it is a compromise.

6:55 p.m. on August 26, 2015 (EDT)
202 reviewer rep
96 forum posts

ppine said:

Unzip your average mummy bag except for the foot box, then you can have the best of both worlds in a compact package.

 Exactly.

And...having the foot box of a mummy is a bonus, as it insures that your feet will not accidentally become uncovered while you sleep. The second bonus of a foot box is many mummy bags have a little extra fill in that area. I believe quilts  have even fill throughout. 

Several sleeping bags by Western Mountaineering (et.al.) have a zipper that not only goes down the entire length of the bag, but also unzip across the bottom of the foot box, so it can lay flat like a quilt if you want it to. If you want, it can even zip onto another bag for a double if you want to cozy up with your partner.

I know alot of people who swear by quilts, and many of them have made the switch to quilts from a mummy. So, it's obviously a personal preference thing.

For me, a mummy is more versatile. I'd be much more comfortable (and confident) trying to make a mummy into a quilt than the other way around.

10:56 a.m. on August 27, 2015 (EDT)
73 reviewer rep
3,630 forum posts

And when it gets really cold, you can zip up a mummy bag, maximizing heat retention.

11:09 a.m. on August 28, 2015 (EDT)
1 reviewer rep
712 forum posts

Lee Patterson said:

ppine said:

Unzip your average mummy bag except for the foot box, then you can have the best of both worlds in a compact package.

 Exactly.

And...having the foot box of a mummy is a bonus, as it insures that your feet will not accidentally become uncovered while you sleep. The second bonus of a foot box is many mummy bags have a little extra fill in that area. I believe quilts  have even fill throughout. 

Several sleeping bags by Western Mountaineering (et.al.) have a zipper that not only goes down the entire length of the bag, but also unzip across the bottom of the foot box, so it can lay flat like a quilt if you want it to. If you want, it can even zip onto another bag for a double if you want to cozy up with your partner.

I know alot of people who swear by quilts, and many of them have made the switch to quilts from a mummy. So, it's obviously a personal preference thing.

For me, a mummy is more versatile. I'd be much more comfortable (and confident) trying to make a mummy into a quilt than the other way around.

 

First, quilts can come with a closed foot box.  In fact, most of them do.

Second, many quilts, like your WM bag have shifting down and / or additional down in the foot box.  Not to mention, they have additional down on top for any given temperature rating.  Hence, this is why you get the light weight and the warmth combined.

There is literally nothing more versatile than a quilt with respect to sleeping.  How many quilts have you used?

11:10 a.m. on August 28, 2015 (EDT)
1 reviewer rep
712 forum posts

ppine said:

And when it gets really cold, you can zip up a mummy bag, maximizing heat retention.

 

You can close up a quilt by using the pad straps such that there is nothing uncovered and exposed.  A sleeping bag does not keep you warm if compressed - your sleeping pad works here.   Therefore, you can maximize heat retention at least as good as any mummy bag.  A quilt has none of the downsides of a mummy bag but retains all of the benefits and versatility of a quilt.

The 'benefits' you espouse ignore these facts.

12:48 p.m. on August 28, 2015 (EDT)
73 reviewer rep
3,630 forum posts

How can you roll around in a quilt at night and stay warm? There is a reason there are 100 sleeping bags sold for every quilt.

Do whatever works for you.

3:04 p.m. on August 28, 2015 (EDT)
1 reviewer rep
712 forum posts

ppine said:

How can you roll around in a quilt at night and stay warm? There is a reason there are 100 sleeping bags sold for every quilt.

Do whatever works for you.

 

Re-read my posts.  There are pad straps that secure the quilt to the sleeping pad.  Roll to your hearts content - no problem.

There are far more sleeping bag manufacturers than quilt manufacturers.  And you are using sales as a qualifying statement to prove what?

Yes, do whatever works for you.  But your commentary about quilts was misinformed.


Other-Hiking-Quilts.jpg

8:32 a.m. on August 29, 2015 (EDT)
1,967 reviewer rep
350 forum posts

I agree, I find it much easier to roll around in a quilt than in a bag. A backpacking quilt using the straps to attach it to your pad is much more like sleeping in a bed at home than a bag is.

5:32 p.m. on September 15, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
90 forum posts

LocoLibre Gear

3:14 p.m. on September 25, 2015 (EDT)
RETAILER
8 reviewer rep
215 forum posts

Lee Patterson said:

You mentioned Big Agnes.  I initially considered them because of their width.  I looked at several BA bags but most of the reviews I read, said the the temp ratings are way off by at least 10 degrees. 

Like you, I am normally clausterphobic in mummy bags, so after alot of research, I decided on 2 Western Mountaineering mummy bags.

The first one I bought is the WM Bison (-40F) and in the XL size it has 68' girth at the shoulders. A perfect fit for me! BTW, I am 6'3" 250lbs.

The second bag I bought is the WM Alpinlite (20F) bag. This bag has a 65' shoulder girth, so it was a bit too narrow for me. So, after more research I discovered that WM makes a bag expander which was perfect for me, as it added about 3 more inches of width to my Alpinlite bag! The expander just zips in in about 30 seconds. So, now I have 2 mummy bags I can zip all the way up and have plenty of room to move my arms around.  I am a side sleeper, and I can roll over on my right or left side and the bag stays put.

As someone else mentioned, you can always unzip your mummy bag down to the foot box, and now you have a quilt and your feet will always stay covered. I like having gear that is versatile like that.  Some WM bags actually zip all the way down the side of the bag and then across the bottom of the footbox, so it can lay perfectly flat just like a quilt if that's what you want.

As a side note the WM bags are quite expensive, but if you read even just a few reviews, you will see everyone says (including me) they are well worth the price. In addition, almost every review I have read on WM bags consistently say the stated temp ratings by WM are conservative. Most would comfortably take you another 10 degrees below the stated temp rating. A couple of reviews on the Alpinlite had claims of getting close to 0F and still toasty warm. I'm not surprised.

I will likely never buy a bag from anyone else other that Western Mountainering. The design, materials and craftsmanship are top notch. Like sleeping in a silk-lined cloud! These bags are all made by hand in San Jose, CA. so that was another selling point to me.  

 Correction - WM Bison has a 64" shoulder girth, not a 68" girth.

WM has several models that are semi-rectangular that work well for customers that have claustrophobic issues.

Disclosure - I am an authorized WM retailer.

5:57 a.m. on September 26, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
11 forum posts

Paul L. Arrington said:

Is there a certain "camping" quilt?  What brand?

  Since having a light sleeping bag seems to be important (and it is to me as well, I don't want to carry anything more than I need), my suggestion is to focus on an ultralight sleeping bag instead of a quilt. You can find quite a lot of them that are good, these are for example supposed to be the best ones: http://www.outdoorgearup.com/best-ultralight-sleeping-bag/ Hope it helps.

10:22 a.m. on September 30, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
265 forum posts

I opened the link you gave Joe, and I really had to smile. How anyone may call a 5 pound sleeping bag lightweight is beyond me. And the info site refused to give any temperature estimate, only saying from 0 to 20. Why are so many us producers reluctant to follow the EN13537 standard for sleeping bags.( No it is not perfect but it is the best so far to avoid a cold freezing night.) Only answer I can think of is to fool the customers.

Otto

1:58 a.m. on October 1, 2015 (EDT)
202 reviewer rep
96 forum posts

vigilguy said:

 Correction - WM Bison has a 64" shoulder girth, not a 68" girth.

WM has several models that are semi-rectangular that work well for customers that have claustrophobic issues.

Disclosure - I am an authorized WM retailer.

 Hey Vigilguy, 

The WM Bison is actually available in an X-LONG and X-WIDE version. The shoulder girth is indeed 68", the hip is 57" and the footbox is 41".

It's a 7 foot long bag. Here is a link to the store I purchased it from including the specs:

http://store.mountaineer.com/product_p/bison.htm

9:49 a.m. on October 1, 2015 (EDT)
RETAILER
8 reviewer rep
215 forum posts

Lee Patterson said:

vigilguy said:

 Correction - WM Bison has a 64" shoulder girth, not a 68" girth.

WM has several models that are semi-rectangular that work well for customers that have claustrophobic issues.

Disclosure - I am an authorized WM retailer.

 Hey Vigilguy, 

The WM Bison is actually available in an X-LONG and X-WIDE version. The shoulder girth is indeed 68", the hip is 57" and the footbox is 41".

It's a 7 foot long bag. Here is a link to the store I purchased it from including the specs:

http://store.mountaineer.com/product_p/bison.htm

 Lee-

Well, that is fascinating! I never knew that. Thanks for posting this info.

I called Gary at WM this morning and he did acknowledge that this particular retailer had ordered a few of these, and that the Bison is the only model that they still do a custom order on.  Interesting.

Now that WM makes the Cypress (69"), a semi-rectangular model, this one is more readily available.  I own one of these, (and sold 8 or 9), and like the ability to unzip the foot end for venting.  HUGE bag, but very comfy and roomy in cold temps.

10:48 a.m. on October 2, 2015 (EDT)
202 reviewer rep
96 forum posts

vigilguy said:

Lee Patterson said:

vigilguy said:

 Correction - WM Bison has a 64" shoulder girth, not a 68" girth.

WM has several models that are semi-rectangular that work well for customers that have claustrophobic issues.

Disclosure - I am an authorized WM retailer.

 Hey Vigilguy, 

The WM Bison is actually available in an X-LONG and X-WIDE version. The shoulder girth is indeed 68", the hip is 57" and the footbox is 41".

It's a 7 foot long bag. Here is a link to the store I purchased it from including the specs:

http://store.mountaineer.com/product_p/bison.htm

 Lee-

Well, that is fascinating! I never knew that. Thanks for posting this info.

I called Gary at WM this morning and he did acknowledge that this particular retailer had ordered a few of these, and that the Bison is the only model that they still do a custom order on.  Interesting.

Now that WM makes the Cypress (69"), a semi-rectangular model, this one is more readily available.  I own one of these, (and sold 8 or 9), and like the ability to unzip the foot end for venting.  HUGE bag, but very comfy and roomy in cold temps.

 Vigilguy,

I have also seen a 7 foot version of the Western Mountaineering Kodiak as well. Backcountry.com sells that one.  The long 6'6" version of the Kodiak has a 67" shoulder girth but I can't tell if the 7 foot version is even wider or not.

Another bag I considered (before I purchased the Bison) was the WM Bristlecone -10F because of it's large 69" shoulder girth. Honestly, I just didn't care for the green color (the only color choice for this bag) of the Bristlecone, but really liked the bright red of the Bison GWS, and if I'm spending about $1,000 on a bag, I need to like the color too :) 

I also have a WM Alpinlite 20F bag. It is a narrow bag (for me anyway) with only a 64" shoulder girth so I just ordered a WM bag expander with it and BOOM, now it has a 67" shoulder girth! Done!!

Being able to add the expander was a big deciding factor in my choice to go with WM. Feathered Friends was the other top contender, but most of their bags have a 64" shoulder girth even in the long sizes, so that was ultimately the deal-breaker for me. 

 

5:38 p.m. on October 2, 2015 (EDT)
1,437 reviewer rep
18 forum posts

I have always had the same issue with mummy bags.  While I don't own one, I have repeatedly considered "borrowing" my brother's Sierra Designs BackCountry Bed 800 3-season bag.  That thing is really comfortable!

For my own use, I use a Enlightened Equipment Revelation quilt.  Each is custom made, so you have to order about 6 weeks ahead of time.  Mine is a 20-degree 900-fill down quilt with DownTek water-repellent down and weather resistant strips at both head and foot.  On warm nights, I use it like a quilt at home.  On chilly nights, I snap the footbox shut and fasten the top of the quilt to my air mattress.  All told, it is lighter than my older sleeping bags, warmer than my old sleeping bags, and FAR more comfortable than any sleeping bag I have ever used.

The one downside I have found is that a quilt doesn't give you the head cover you'll get from a mummy bag.  You can buy quilted hats to solve that problem, though.  Enlightened Equipment makes one that I've been considering if for no other reason than my walk to the bus stop is REALLY COLD in the winter.

7:29 p.m. on October 2, 2015 (EDT)
202 reviewer rep
96 forum posts

OttoStover said:

I opened the link you gave Joe, and I really had to smile. How anyone may call a 5 pound sleeping bag lightweight is beyond me. And the info site refused to give any temperature estimate, only saying from 0 to 20. Why are so many us producers reluctant to follow the EN13537 standard for sleeping bags.( No it is not perfect but it is the best so far to avoid a cold freezing night.) Only answer I can think of is to fool the customers.

Otto

 Well said Otto, I totally agree.

To the OP, Paul Arrington.  

I'm not trying to bash Joe, but all the bags reviewed in his post have synthetic fill, which (I'm almost certain) is always heavier and bulkier than down for a given temp rating, and yes, 5lbs for an "ultralight bag" is not ultralight.

Here are 2 much more detailed, in-depth reviews on really good quality sleeping bags.  As you'll see, all of the bags and quilts in both of these reviews hover right around the 1lb-2.5lb pound range and all are down-filled.

These were some of many reviews I read when I was still deciding on which bags to get.

I hope this helps you Paul.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Best-Backpacking-Sleeping-Bag

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews

2:59 a.m. on October 10, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
2 forum posts

You should be aware that all down gear manufacturers in the US (especially in the West) are still catching up from the lengthy longshoremans' strike (more than 6 months) that affected all the Pacific Coast ports (especially the 5 major West Coast ports)

9:26 a.m. on October 10, 2015 (EDT)
275 reviewer rep
1,416 forum posts

I too get claustrophobic in a zipped up mummy bag but have found the solution:  Go Overkill. 

My bag of choice is a WM Puma down bag with the microfiber shell and rated at -15F when I bought it in 2005.  Still going strong. 

I use it for long winter trips in the mountains of TN and NC and VA.  It's overkill enough to use unzipped as a quilt 95% of the time in all temps down to about 10F. 

Unlike a quilt it always has the option to get zipped and "go mummified" when temps hit 0F or -10F, a regular occurrence where I backpack.

When these arctic outbreaks do occur, I have the backup mummy zip option for toasty warmth---the rest of the time I can sleep comfortably on my pad with the bag thrown over like a blanket and my feet inside the footbox.

7:43 a.m. on October 11, 2015 (EDT)
1,967 reviewer rep
350 forum posts

Enlightened Equipment recently introduced a new quilt model called the Convert that has a full-length zipper that allows you to use it as either a quilt or a mummy bag, "for those who want to try out the versatility and relaxed feel of a quilt, but aren’t quite ready to give up the familiarity and security of a traditional sleeping bag." Can be opened all the way like a full blanket or zipped up all the way as a hoodless mummy, or anything in between. Can be customized to a wide range of sizes, temp ratings, down quality, and colors -- a 30F regular size is under 22oz and $275 in 800 fill.

5:15 a.m. on October 12, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
265 forum posts

I have myself a WM bag, and I find that their temperature estimates are very accurate and close to the EN13537 standard. The EE Convert mentioned above is by the producer rated at 20F! To compare it to a WM bag Ultralite they have the same temperature rating. But the WM bag has down quality of 850+ and a baffle construction. The EE has only 800 fp down and it looks like a stitch-through construction. Does not anyone feel this is suspicious?

IMHO the only thing that keeps the EE and most other US producers to rate their products even 20F or more better, is the possibility of a lawsuit when somebody dies from hypotermia when they are well within the claimed temperature "rating". 

We seems to have lost the OP, but I have ceased to feel annoyed by this, since there may be others reading that could find something useful.

There is a polish producer Robert's that make good and quite modest priced bags and other down equipment. I bought two bags for one of my sons, and they made them with a full zipper so that the bags could be opened up to be a quilt/duvet. And they comply to the mentioned EN standard so you do not fear a freezing night! The prices given are inclusive VAT in Polen, and I got this deducted when I bought the bags last year. 

Otto

10:06 a.m. on October 13, 2015 (EDT)
1,967 reviewer rep
350 forum posts

Seriously?

EE makes down quilts rated from 50F to 0F, in 10 degree increments, you get to specify.

EE's also offers down fill from 800fp to 950fp, you get to specify (though I believe they temporarily don't have 950 in stock).

Regardless of what the stitching may look like to you, EE's baffles are mesh wall construction to allow full loft and no cold spots (it's possible that the 50F is stitched through, I haven't actually seen one of their 50F quilts in person, but all other temps have mesh wall baffles and appropriate loft for the temp rating).

Quite frankly it is irresponsible of you to claim that EE is somehow "suspicious" when you haven't checked some simple and publicly-available facts, and that people will freeze to death using one of their quilts at the temperature it is rated.

You don't have to like EE, or quilts, that's fine. WM makes a fine product, and if you're happy with them and want to say so then you should do them the honor of praising their merits instead of trying to build them up by tearing somebody else down. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of satisfied EE customers, happily unfrozen and very much alive, and no merit to your claims.

9:42 a.m. on October 22, 2015 (EDT)
73 reviewer rep
3,630 forum posts

What Walter said. On warmer trips I like a blanket by itself.

12:29 p.m. on October 22, 2015 (EDT)
REVIEW CORPS
4,534 reviewer rep
6,025 forum posts

Considering the vehemence with respect to Otto's comments on the Enlightened Equipment quilts, I took a close look at the EE website. First thing is that it certainly appears from the photos with their "scan magnification" that Otto is correct that the Convert and most other gear in EE's line is sewn through rather than baffled. This does indeed reduce the insulating capability. Maybe JR is correct that the Convert has mesh wall baffling (I haven't examined one in person, though the discussion on the EE website implies that all their quilts have the baffling)

Another thing to note is that EE says that their rating is "comparable to the EN Men's Lower Limit rating", which they say means that a man will be quite comfortable. Unfortunately, this is not what the EN ratings say. I have several sleeping bags with the EN label attached that describe what the rating means. The Men's rating according to the EN literature is

"Lower Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep for eight hours in a curled position without waking."

Check out the EN system here. There is one lower temperature rating, which is the temperature at which

a standard woman can survive for 6 hours without risk of death from hypothermia, though frostbite is still a possibility.

Note that the "standard man and woman" are 25 years old in good physical condition. The EN discussion specifies height and weight for the standard persons, from which you can derive the BMI.

I note as well that EE says:

Our ratings are similar to the EN Lower Limit rating, also often referred to as the Men’s rating. Thus, a 20° rated quilt will be comfortable for the average man at about 20° outside. This makes a few assumptions: he’s wearing sufficient head insulation, such as one of our Hoodlums, he’s using a pad that’s sufficiently warm for the conditions (don't over look this; the pad is a critical part of your insulation), and he’s wearing base layers. Typically women, but many men as well, will sleep colder than average. For those we recommend a rating about 10°F lower than the conditions they’ll likely be out in to accommodate that (a 20° rating for 30°F conditions, for example). As always, everyone sleeps a bit differently.

This all goes back to the debate that comes up frequently that basically temperature ratings for sleeping bags and quilts tend to be on the optimistic side for the majority of companies. Ultimately, how you sleep depends not only on your personal makeup, but also how fatigued you are, what you ate before going to bed, and many other factors. Otto's warning should be taken as an alert - everyone should learn how they sleep in the range of conditions they are heading into.

12:41 p.m. on October 23, 2015 (EDT)
BRAND REP
0 reviewer rep
2 forum posts

Hello all,

I was told about this thread and a few facts about my products that have been misunderstood. 

First off every single down quilt we sell uses mesh wall baffles. From 50*-0* with no exception. There was a time when our 50* was sewn through but that is no longer the case. I'm not sure how you could look at any photo on any website to determine baffle construction but you definitely got it wrong with ours 

our temp ratings are not EN measured (yet) but a similar trend can be seen. We believe our stated rating to be comfortable for males who do not sleep cold. Cold sleepers and avg females should subtract 10* from the rating. Cold sleeping females should subtract 20* to be safe. 

Hopefully this his clears up any misinformation. 

-Tim Marshall

Owner; Enlightened Equipment

7:28 p.m. on October 23, 2015 (EDT)
REVIEW CORPS
2,695 reviewer rep
1,419 forum posts

He's so modest,  that Tim. He could have indulged in quite a bit of self-promotion there, and yet doesn't. That's one reason I support what EE does.

6:16 a.m. on October 24, 2015 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
265 forum posts

pillowthread said:

He's so modest,  that Tim. He could have indulged in quite a bit of self-promotion there, and yet doesn't. That's one reason I support what EE does.

 He may well be a nice guy, but I would be far more impressed if he let his quilts and bags get EN certified, so he does not fool his customers to believe his equipment is far warmer than it really is. Ok, he admits that the 20F stuff may be just warm enough at 40F, and that is a huge difference. Btw it was the reason that the OP experienced and led to this tread. But the EE company continues to market the 40F equipment to be sufficient at 20F. Im a simple soul and I call such things fraud! 

Some of us are 25 years, fit,173cm and weigh 73 kilos, but most of us do not fit all those criteria. When I buy a bag, I look at the comfort for women, and then reduce the temperature with 5C° This is because the fill after some use looses some of the loft, and I want to sleep well the rest of the time I have the bag. 

9:59 a.m. on October 24, 2015 (EDT)
1,437 reviewer rep
18 forum posts

I actually just finished writing up my review on the EE Revelation (not the Convert listed above).  I haven't been using it for too long, but have absolutely loved every minute of it so far whether the temperature was hovering around 50 or had plummeted to 22 F.  

https://www.trailspace.com/gear/enlightened-equipment/revelation-quilt/?review=34462

3:45 p.m. on October 24, 2015 (EDT)
BRAND REP
0 reviewer rep
2 forum posts

Otto,

There is no such thing as a rating system that is true for every user. The vast majority of my customers comment that our ratings are true or even conservative. If you are an especially cold sleeper and know that about yourself how could you expect any company or rating system to offer a rating that will be true for you?  To do so would under rate bags/quilts by 20* for everyone else. 

Also, it's great thinking that I have not allowed my product to be EN tested, suggesting that the testing bodies are just offering these tests and I'm just a jerk and won't let them do the test on my products. Getting my product line EN rated will cost me thousands of dollars. It's not just something I haven't gotten around too, it's extremely expensive. id need to test every model, temp rating, down type, and size to post results at around $600 a pop. I have 6 down fill products, each with 4 fill options, up to 6 temp options, and up to 11 size options. So I was wrong, it won't cost thousands, it's nearly a million (it's $950K), but yeah I just won't let it happen.

-Tim

9:34 p.m. on October 24, 2015 (EDT)
1,967 reviewer rep
350 forum posts

All I know is I am in the middle of the bell-shaped curve between warm and cold sleepers, and I've been fine in an Enlightened Equipment 30F quilt when the overnight low hit 30F. That's a good enough rating system for me.

9:44 p.m. on October 25, 2015 (EDT)
11,702 reviewer rep
1,399 forum posts

Hi guys! Just a friendly "moderator" reminder that we can have disagreements without being disagreeable.


Here is the link to our Community Guidelines https://www.trailspace.com/about/community-rules.html

Let's keep it civil and respectful.

February 16, 2019
Quick Reply

Please sign in to reply

 
More Topics
This forum: Older: Military sleeping bag VS Slumberjack boundary -20 VS Alps Mountaineering -20 cresent? Newer: Compact Outdoor Camera
All forums: Older: Southwest VA Suggestions? Newer: David and David's Most Excellent Kilimanjaro Adventure 2004